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Home My WebLink About2008 Plumbing Board Minutes SING VEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT 316 N. Capitol Avenue, Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238 (517)483-4355• FAX: (517)377-0169 I C H I G BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE Virg Bernero, Mayor t" OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS r Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm f i� January 10, 2008 r e'l C n MEMBERS PRESENT: TIM WAITE, EMMETT KELLY Asa MEMBERS ABSENT: TIM HAGGART, STEVE RECK, BILL POND STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR DAVE BURTON, PLUMBING INSPECTOR With absences, there were not enough Plumbing Board members present to make a quorum. Therefore, no official business was conducted. Old Business: Approve minutes of December 13, 2007 New Business: None Next Plumbing Board meeting will be February 14, 2008 at 7:00 p.m. Respe f ubmitted ank Eirosius, Sr. S cretary Draft date: January 24, 2008 Approved date: cc: Mayor's Office Board Secretary City Clerk's Office Staff Representatives Public file—original SING DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING & NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT 316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing, MI 48933-1238 (517)483-4355• FAX: (517)377-0169 BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE :? Virg Bernero, Mayor c y OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm FEBRUARY 14, 2008 ' MEMBERS PRESENT: STEVE RECK, BILL POND, TIM WAITE, EMMETT KELLY, MEMBERS ABSENT: TIM HAGGART STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR DAVE BURTON, PLUMBING INSPECTOR Chairman Tim Waite called the meeting to order at 7:08 p.m. Old Business: None New Business: The Plumbing Board members present spent considerable time discussing changes of the 2006 Plumbing Code. They also discussed issues regarding the Public Service Department. After much discussion, they decided to invite representatives of Public Service to the next Plumbing Board meeting, Thursday, March 13, 2008 to discuss the jurisdictional lines. Drain Layers Exam: The Plumbing Board members present found Robert J. Pokorny, of Sunset Excavating, to be qualified to take the drain layers exam. Dave Burton, Plumbing Inspector administered the drain layers exam. Robert J. Pokorny had a test score of 88% on the exam. At 8:49 pm a motion was made by Emmett Kelly and seconded by Steve Reck to adjourn. The motion was carried unanimously. Next plumbing board meeting will be March, 13, 2008 at 7:00p.m. VankEirosius submitted; Sr., Secretary Draft Date: February 25, 2008 Approved date: �3 aoq cc: Mayor's Office City Clerk's Office Appeal folders Appeal applicants Public file-original Board Secretary 00I/ �' DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING & NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT 316 N. Capitol Avenue, Suites C-1 • Lansing, MI 48933-1238 (517)483 4355•FAX: (517)377 0169 BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE Virg Bernero, Mayor OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm MARCH13, 2008 �=' c:o1 MEMBERS PRESENT: BILL POND, TIM WAITE, EMMETT KELLY L' r-- EXCUSED ABSENCES: STEVE RECK MEMBERS ABSENT: TIM HAGGART STAFF PRESENT: FRACHRIS IROSIUS SR., CHIEF GERLIND, BUILDING SAFETY ETY MANAGER INSPECTORNG SE Chairman Tim Waite called the meeting to order at 7:10 P.M. On a motion by Bill Pond, supported by Emmett Kelly, the minutes of, December 13, 2007, were approved unanimously. On a motion by Tim Waite, supported by Bill Pond, the minutes of February 14, 2008 were approved unanimously, The Plumbing Board members present found Rander Gold, Robert Soluoy & Eric Whalon to be qualified to take the drain layers exam. Frank Eirosius, Chief Plumbing Inspector administered the drain layers exam. Rander Gold scored 82% Robert Soluoy scored 88% Eric Whalon scored 78% Old Business: None New Business: Discussion regarding the State Plumbing Act 773/338/3525/ of 2002 & the building officials & Inspectors Registration Act 541986. The Plumbing Board waited ufor rtabled Public the discussion O&M ntil the next Law Pludepartments. mbing Board When none of them showed p, the Plumbing Board meeting. A question was raised, what kind of liability the Plumbing Board would have by continuing the Drain Layers testing? It is not prescribed in the code quoted in the 2006 Michigan Plumbing Code, section State Plumbing Code Law 733 of Act 2002, under Act 703 Michigan Plumbing Code 2006, Section 106 Permits 106.4 By whom application is made. This section reads: "Application for a permit shall be made by a plumbing contractor licensed in accordance with 2002 PA 733, MCL 338.3511. Exemptions: 1. Water service permits. 2. Building sewer and private sewer permits. 3. Minor Repair." e 2 Minutes for Plumbing Board of Appeals—March 13,2008 Page After a lengthily discussion the Plumbing Board asked the Plumbing Chief, Why is the Plumbing Board giving Drain Layer tests to people eligible to do that work and not be State licensed contractors? They don't have to be licensed by any entity or municipalities to do that kind of work, but they have to be and shall be taking out Plumbing Permits per State stature. The other question the Board had was, how bonafide and/or how is the law department backing and representing the board members? After a lengthily discussion the Plumbing Board adjourned until they can have the discussion with public service and the law department. Adjournment was called at 8:47p.m. Due to the Plumbing Inspectors out of town Conference April 9-11, 2008, the next plumbing board meeting has been changed to April 17, 2008 at 7:00 pm. Sin¢ rel C� -• Chef Plumbing Inspector/Secretary V2 Frank E. Eirosius, Sr. OHI DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING & NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT 316 N. Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing, MI 48933-1238 (517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169 BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE Virg Bernero, Mayor OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING April 6,2008 PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm APRIL 17, 2008 MEMBERS PRESENT: TIM WAITE, EMMETT KELLY, STEVE RECK MEMBERS ABSENT: TIM HAGGART, BILL POND STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR CHRIS SEGERLIND, BUILDING SAFETY MANAGER GUESTS PRESENT: BOB ROSE, PUBLIC SERVICE DEAN JOHNSON, PUBLIC SERVICE DAN DANKE, PUBLIC SERVICE Chairman Tim Waite called the meeting to order at 7:06 p.m. On a motion by Steve Reck, supported by Emmett Kelly, the minutes of March 13, 2008, were approved unanimously. The Drain Layers Exam had been given to John Meamey (Posen Construction), by Public Service. The Plumbing Board members present found John Meamey qualified to take the test. John Meamey scored 78%. Old Business: The State Plumbing Act 54/Act 733/Act 230 and the Codified City Ordinances 814 were discussed. Because no one from Public Service was present at the March 13, 2008 Plumbing Board meeting, the discussion was tabled. New Business: The State Plumbing Act 733 of 2002, the Building Officials & Inspectors Registration Act 541986, and the Codified City Ordinance 814 were discussed. The Plumbing Board and delegates from Public Service had a discussion regarding the Drain Layers and Sewer Cleaners licensing requirement. According to Act 733 of 2002 and the Michigan Plumbing Code of 2006, Chapter 1-Administration, Section 106.4 reads as follows: "By whom application is made. Application for a plumbing permit shall be made by a plumbing contractor licensed in accordance with 2002 PA 733, MCL 338.3511, et seq. Exceptions are a license is not required, but a plumbing permit shall be taken out by the plumbing division for the work that is exempt by Act 733 pertaining to water service piping/building sewer and private sewer connections and minor repairs." After a lengthy discussion, the Plumbing Board explained to the City Engineer and the rest of the Public Service members present that a drain layers license is not required and for the Public Service Department to enforce a licensing requirement that is not covered in Act 733 of 2002 to have the Plumbing Board administer a drain layers test is not legal and is not required for anybody to do building sewer work and drain cleaning in the City of Lansing. The City Engineer pointed out to the Plumbing Board that those requirements are in the Codified City Ordinances 814 and the Plumbing Board is minutes for Plumbing Board of Appeals— April 17, 2008 Page 2 supposed to examine the aK ant and check all of his/her qualifications. After a lengthy discussion, the Plumbing Board explained to the City Engineers and Public Service members present that it is not a requirement, that anyone can apply to do the work, and that Public Service needs to revisit the Codified City Ordinances and update the ordinances so that they meet Public Service requirements and also the Michigan Plumbing Codes requirements. After more discussion, the Building Officials and Inspectors Registration Act 54 of 1986 was discussed. The Plumbing Board explained the jurisdictional requirements, which are that the Plumbing Code starts from the building drain 30 inches outside to a building sewer and ends at the property line. Public Service jurisdiction starts at the property line to the public sewer. As the Code changed from the Uniform Code to the Michigan Plumbing Code, the jurisdictions also changed with it. This means that Public Service needs a qualified licensed plumbing inspector to inspect anything beyond the new jurisdictions. As of now, the Public Service Department has not hired an inspector licensed/registered under Act 54 1986 to inspect the building sewer piping. The City Engineer stated that they have qualified people that are doing sewer lead inspections and also employ other agencies that are assigned to verify the inspection process and presently their budget does not have the money to hire a qualified candidate and they feel it is not necessary. After another lengthy discussion, the Plumbing Board, the City Engineer & Public Service members present proposed they take the issue to the City Attorney's Office and request their legal interpretation on what is required by the Codified City Ordinance 814 and the 2006 Michigan Plumbing Code. They also agreed to request an interpretation from the State Plumbing Board. An agreement was reached between the Plumbing Board and the Public Service Department to table this matter until the interpretations from the City Attorney and the State Plumbing Board are received. A motion was made by Bill Pond and seconded by Emmett Kelly to adjourn. The motion was carried unanimously. Next e rd meeting will be May 8, 2008 at 7:00p.m. Respt F a k Eirosius Sr., Secretary Draft Date: May 6, 2008 Approved date: e 9 cc: Mayor's Office Appeals applicants } City Clerk's Office Public file-original Appeal folders Board Secretary S I G DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT 316 N. Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing, MI 48933-1238 (517)483-4355• FAX: (517)377-0169 I C H G P BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE Virg Bernero, Mayor OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS C-j'J p Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm = _� L i SEPTEMBER 11, 2008 MEMBERS PRESENT: EMMETT KELLY, STEVE RECK L" MEMBERS ABSENT: BILL POND, TIM HAGGART, TIM WAITE STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR DAVE BURTON, PLUMBING INSPECTOR With absences, there were not enough Plumbing Board members present to make a quorum. Therefore, no official business was conducted. Old Business: Approve minutes of April 17, 2008 New Business: None Next Plumbing Board meeting will be October 9, 2008 at 7:00 p.m. 4nkhief ctf,,III su - I to , Eirosius, Sr. Plumbing Inspector/Secretary Draft date: September 19, 2008 Approved date: cc: Mayor's Office Board Secretary City Clerk's Office Staff Representatives Public file—original vas NG DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING & NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT 316 N. Capitol Avenue, Suites C-1 • Lansing, MI 48933-1238 (517)483-4355• FAX: (517)377-0169 � Ic H t BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE Virg Bernero, Mayor November 3, 2008 OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm OCTOBER 9, 2008 MEMBERS PRESENT: STEVE RECK, BILL POND, TIM WAITE, EMMETT KELLY, MEMBERS ABSENT: TIM HAGGART STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR DAVE BURTON, PLUMBING INSPECTOR Vice Chairman Tim Waite called the meeting to order at 7:09 p.m. . Drain Layers Exam: The Plumbing Board members present found Tim Bliesener and Matt Harris to be qualified to take the drain layers exam. Dave Burton, Plumbing Inspector, administered the drain layers exam. Tim Bliesener had a test score of 73% on the exam. Matt Harris had a test score of 89% on the exam. Old Business: Frank Eirosius, Chief Plumbing Inspector, reported back to the Plumbing Board that an email was sent to the City Attorney for an interpretation regarding the discussion with Public Service on the working relationship and boundary lines. New Business: Per the Michigan Plumbing code 2006 ed., ch.6, section 604.3-water distribution system design criteria, and 604.4-maximum flow fixture fittings shall be in accordance to table 604.4. The Plumbing Board Members spent a considerable amount of time discussing the sizing of tank less water heater units and water consumption flow rates. The Board conclusion was to stay with the water supply fixture unit criteria. The Plumbing Board had a lengthy discussion regarding the definition for public and private plumbing fixtures in residential and commercial buildings. The definition for private was buildings where plumbing fixtures are for utilization by a family or an individual. The definition of public was where a number of fixtures are installed so that their utilization is similarly unrestricted. Plumbing Board of Appeals Minut, October 9, 2008 Page 2 The Plumbing Board also discussed the difference of a secondary roof drain and a scupper. After a lengthy discussion the Plumbing Board concluded that a secondary roof system is conveyed by a piping system that terminates at a point above grade in a location that would normally be observed by a building occupant or maintenance personnel. A scupper shall meet the requirements of the International Building Code. At 8:46 p.m. a motion was made by Steve Reck and seconded by Bill Pond to adjourn. The motion was carried unanimously. Next plumbing board meeting will be November 13, 2008 at 7:00p.m. Respec y submitted, /r- ank Eirosius Sr., Secretary Draft Date: October 16, 2008 Approved date: cc: Mayor's Office Appeals applicants s City Clerk's Office Public file-original Appeal folders Board Secretary �- ,� . �_ 1