HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 Plumbing Board Minutes yP� S 1 DE. ARTMENT OF PL, -.gNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
I c H t G BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm
January 14, 2002
Members present: Lynn Gunthorpe, Tim Waite, Chris Sherwood, Bill Pond, Steve Reck,
Tim Haggart
Members absent: None
Staff Present: Frank Eirosius Sr., Dave Burton, Jack Nelson
Chairman Steve Reck called the meeting to order at 7:09 p.m. On a motion by Tim Waite,
supported by Bill Pond, the minutes of December 10, 2001, were approved unanimously.
Old Business: None
New Business:
Case No.: Address: Petitioner:
PBA 001-2002 BEANER'S GOURMET COFFEE ROBERT FISH, PRESIDENT
401 S. CAPITOL AVENUE
Robert Fish, President and Cynthia T. Pugh, Owner were present for the appeal. Ms. Pugh is the
operator of Beaner's Gourmet Coffee, a kiosk that is located in the building at 401 S. Capitol: the
same building as the Lansing Public Library. The Petitioner is requesting to allow seating for
customers from 7:00am —9:00am, without providing restrooms between those hours. As per 2000
Michigan Building Code and 2000 Michigan Plumbing Code, if there is seating provided, there shall
be restrooms provided.
The argument in support of this appeal by the Petitioner is that the Library doesn't want the
customers to be using their restrooms when the Library is not open, but restrooms are available to
employees at this time, just not for the Public. It is not practical for Beaner's to build restrooms for
those two hours and it would be an economic burden to the business to do so. Similar operations
provide no restrooms and persistent customers are requesting to sit down and drink their coffee
and to have a dialog with co-workers and/or have a quick business meeting at that time. Presently,
Beaner's is not allowing seating between 7:00am — 9:00am. The Library is not willing to provide
security between those hours. Ms. Pugh is willing to do so.
Minutes for Plumbing Board of Ar. els— May 9, 2000 2
After a lengthy discussion with the Board, a motion was made to grant a variance to allow seating
between the period of time from 7:OOam — 9:OOam without providing access to the restrooms. Tim
Haggart made the motion: seconded by Chris Sherwood, the motion carried unanimously.
Other Business:
Emmet Kelly, Assistant Chief State Pluming Inspector, was invited by the Plumbing Board meeting
to talk about the situation that happened in the Tollgate area of Groesbeck. The City's Public
Service Department was also invited. Attending were Dan Danke and Jokay Maxie. Property
owners in the Tollgate area hired an attorney to represent them in sewer backup litigations. The
attorney took the case to the State Plumbing Board to get a variance on 2000 Michigan Residential
Code, Part 7 — Plumbing, Section p3008 Backwater Valves, P3008.1 General, "Fixtures that have
a flood level rims located below the elevation of the next upstream manhole cover of the public
sewer serving such fixture shall be protected from backflow of sewage by installing an approved
backwater valve. Fixtures having flood level rims above the elevation of the next upstream
manhole shall not discharge through the backwater valve. Backwater valves shall be provided with
access."
The attorney took that section to the State Plumbing Board and is appealing the verbiage in the
Code and wants it changed to read that only a backwater valve shall and can be installed on
building drains or building sewers. The State Plumbing Board has not made a decision on that
Appeal, but will be meeting on it and making their final decision as to whether or not they will grant
a variance.
Public Service asked Mr. Kelly a question pertaining to where Public Service's jurisdiction starts
and where the Plumbing Code ends. Mr. Kelly pointed out that the 2000 Michigan Plumbing Code
and the 2000 Michigan Residential Code, Part 7 — Chapter 26, General Plumbing Requirements,
reads, "the water distribution and drainage system of any building or premises where plumbing
fixtures are installed shall be connected to a public water supply or sewer system, respectively
where available. When either a public water-supply or sewer system or both are not available, or
connection thereto is not feasible, an individual water supply or individual private sewage disposal
system or both shall be provided." Mr. Kelly explained to the Board that plumbing begins at the
property line and that is the jurisdiction of the Plumbing Inspector and that Public Service is
responsible for their sewers, tap-ins, or anything that is not privately owned. He also pointed out a
Drain Layer can do the sewer connection on private property, the permits shall be secured by a
licensed Plumbing Contractor and Drain Layers, and it is always the Building Owner's responsibility
to maintain the building drain/sewer. All permits are issued from the Plumbing Department. In
addition, he pointed out that as per R408.30715 of the ORR Admincode, Permits. "Rule 715
Section 106.4 of the Code is amended to read as follows:
106.4. By whom application is made. Application for a permit shall be made by an authorized
Master Plumber, licensed in accordance with 1929 PA 266, MCL 338.901 et seq.
Exceptions:
1. Water service permits.
2. Building sewer and private sewer permits.
History: 1954 ACS 91, Eff. June 16, 1979 AC; 1979 ACS 10, Eff.
Apr. 27, 1982; 1985 MR 3, Eff. Apr. 3, 1985; 1992 MR 3, Eff. Apr. 2,
1992; 1999 MR 2, Eff. Mar. 1, 1999; 2001 MR 8, Eff. Jul. 31, 2001."
Copies of the above rule were passed out to Public Service and the Plumbing Board.
Minutes for Plumbing Board of Ap, Is—May 9, 2000 3
The Board thanked Mr. Kelly and Public Service for appearing and will take the matter up at a later
meeting.
Elections:
Elections were held to elect the Chair and Vice Chairs of the Board. After lengthy discussion, the
Board decided to keep the nominations the same — the Chair is Steve Reck and the Vice Chair is
Tim Haggart. A motion was made by Bill Pond, seconded by Lynn Gunthorpe. Motion carried
unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 8:37pm.
The next scheduled Plumbing Board meeting is February 11, 2002, at 7:00 pm.
j
pectf submitted,iroslus Sr.
retary Draft date: 1/17/02 J
Approved date: g/)
cc: Mayor's Office Board Secretary
City Clerk's Office Appeal folders
Appeal applicants Public file-original
S 1NG LEPARTMENT OF F -ANNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
I c H i G BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm
FEBRUARY 11, 2002
Members present: Lynn Gunthorpe, Chris Sherwood, Bill Pond, Steve Reck
Members absent: Tim Haggart, Tim Waite "
Staff Present: Frank Eirosius Sr., Dave Burton
Steve Reck called the meeting to order at 7:06 p.m. On a motion by Chris Sherwood, supported
by Bill Pond, the minutes of January 14, 2002, were approved.
Old Business:
The Plumbing Board wanted to know how Inspector Shields was doing with the Bradeville
Apartments, regarding the water heater pan situation. A report was given by the Chief Plumbing
Inspector that it is going well and Schulert Plumbing completed a couple of buildings and is
working with Inspector Shields on that project.
The Plumbing Board wanted to know how we are proceeding or whether we heard from the State
of Michigan about the backwater valve situation. The report was given to the Board that there
were no new developments.
The Plumbing Board also wanted to know if we heard anything from Public Service about the last
meeting we had with them about the jurisdictional situation. A report was given to the Board that
there were no new developments.
New Business:
Inspector Burton had a problem with a job site that was pertaining to Section 906, Fixture Vents.
Section 906.4, Individual Venting Required, reads, "If fixtures other than water closets discharge
into only a 3 inch horizontal branch downstream from a water closet, then each connecting less
than 54 inches downstream from the water closet flange shall be individually vented." Inspector
Burton discovered that you could install water closet after water closet into the 54" downstream
from the first water closet up to the required drainage fixture units for that 3" branch. The Board
had a real problem with that, and after a lengthy discussion and debating of the issue, did not
come up with a good solution, but they are highly concerned about the health and safety aspects
and that is a good Plumbing System. Some of the members have been doing Plumbing for
numerous years, in the field and in the trade, and they can't believe that chapter would even be in
the 2000 Michigan Plumbing Code. On top of that, they can't believe that any Licensed Journey
Minutes for Plumbing Board r` gppeals—May 9, 2000 2
Plumber or Master Plumber would take that chapter and section of this Code seriously and would
add that many Water Closets within the 54" rule on a 3" line without venting.
A motion was made by the Bill Pond to send a letter to the State Plumbing Board, the State Chief
Plumbing Inspector and the City Council Office and Mayor's Office, to inform them that their
interpretation of that section of the Code is a serious health and safety issue and they are
extremely concerned. Seconded by Chris Sherwood, the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 8:34 p.m.
The next scheduled Plumbing Board meeting is March 11, 2002, at 7:00 p.m.
Respectf ly s bm' d,
Fr Eirosius Sr., Secretary Draft date:February 14, 2002
Approved date:
cc: Mayor's Office Board Secretary
City Clerk's Office Staff Representatives
Public file-original
S r ` EPARTMENT OF P: \NNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
� N
316 N. Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
I c x i BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:30 pm
March 11, 2002 -
Members present: Tim Haggart, Bill Pond, Tim Waite ;
Members absent: Chris Sherwood, Lynne Gunthorpe, Steve Reck
Staff Present: Frank Eirosius, Sr., Dave Burton
With absences, there were not enough Plumbing Board members present to make a quorum.
Therefore, no official business was conducted.
Old Business: none
New Business: The Plumbing Board Members present, interview four Drainlayers and found
them qualified to take the Drainlayer Exam. (Edward Pearen, Michael Lerash, Geoffrey Riddle,
Ron Spitzley.) Dave Burton, Plumbing Inspector, administered the Drain layer Exam. The scores
are as follows:
Edward Pearen 66%
Michael Lerash 83%
Goeffrey Riddle 84%
Ron Spitzley 82 '/Z%
The Plumbing Board Members present spent considerable time discussing the Michigan Plumbing
Code, Sanitary Drainage Section and Storm Water System Section.
Next Plumbing Board meeting will be April 8, 2002 at 7:00pm.
Respe ul submitted,
eretary
s, Sr.
Draft date: 3/15/2002 ;
Approved date:
cc: Mayor's Office Board Secretary
City Clerk's Office Staff Representatives
Public file-original
y�� S ING L cPARTMENT OF PANNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
j c H I BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:30 pm
Monday, April 8, 2002
Members present: Tim Haggart, Steve Reck 1-1
Members absent: Chris Sherwood, Lynne Gunthorpe, Bill Pond, Tim Waite
Staff Present: Frank Eirosius, Sr., Dave Burton
With absences, there were not enough Plumbing Board members present to make a quorum.
Therefore, no official business was conducted.
Old Business: None
New Business: None
Next Plumbing Board meeting will be May 13, 2002 at 7:00 pm.
Respec ly submitted,
Eirosius, Sr.
cretary Draft date: 4/9/02
Approved date:
cc: Mayor's Office
City Clerk's Office
Board Secretary
Staff Representatives
Public file-original
S I DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
I c H t G BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm
May 5, 2002
Members present: Steve Reck, Tim Waite, Bill Pond, Lynn Gunthorpe
Members absent: Tim Haggart, Chris Sherwood
Staff Present: Frank Eirosius Sr., Dave Burton
Steve Reck called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Old Business: There was lengthy discussion on the minutes. On a motion by Tim Waite,
supported by Bill Pond the minutes of February 11, 2002, were approved. On a motion by Tim
Waite, supported by Bill Pond the minutes of March 11, 2002, were approved. On a motion by Tim
Waite, supported by Bill Pond the minutes of April 8, 2002, were approved.
New Business: None
The Board talked about improving the attendance for the upcoming year. We had a discussion
about the new Michigan Plumbing Code and if anything special is coming up this summer, the
Board is willing to meet at any given time. Otherwise, there is a break until fall and the Board will
meet on September 9, 2002.
The meeting adjourned at 8:39 p.m.
Sin erel
rank Eirosius Sr., Secretary
Draft date: 9/9/02
Approved date:
cc: Mayor's Office
City Clerk's Office
Board Secretary
Public file-original
S I �G LCZ-PARTMENT OF PL -kNNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
1 c H I G BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:30 pm Xl
September 9, 2002
Members present: Tim Haggart, Bill Pond, Steven Reck
Members absent: Lynn Gunthorpe, Chris Sherwood, Tim Waite
Staff Present: Frank E. Eirosius Sr., Dave Burton
With absences, there were not enough Plumbing Board members present to make a quorum.
Therefore, no official business was conducted.
Drain Layer Exam
The Board interviewed John Pung and found him qualified to take the Drain Layers exam. The
Drain Layers exam was administered by Dave Burton, Plumbing Inspector.
John Pung — 88%
The Plumbing Board members present spent considerable time going over the 2000 Michigan
Plumbing Code and Plumbing Law issues.
Old Business: Approve Plumbing Board Minutes
New Business: none
Next Plumbing Board meeting will be on October 14, 2002 at 7:00 pm.
Respe ully s itted,
Fr nk Eirosius, Sr.
S cretary Draft date: 9/19/02
Approved date:
cc: Mayor's Office
City Clerk's Office
Public file-original
Board Secretary
SING Lfz-PARTMENT OF PLANNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
I c H Z G BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:30 pm
October 14, 2002
Members present: Tim Haggart, Steve Reck
Members absent: Bill Pond, Lynn Gunthorpe, Chris Sherwood, Tim Waite
Staff Present: Frank E. Eirosius Sr., Chief Inspector/ Secretary, Dave Burton Inspector
With absences, there were not enough Plumbing Board members present to make a quorum.
Therefore, no official business was conducted.
Drain Layer Exam
The Board interviewed Alan Gorbogge and found him qualified to take the Drain Layers Exam.
Dave Burton, Plumbing Inspector, administered the Drain Layers Exam.
Alan Gorbogge—86%
The Plumbing Board members present spent considerable time on how to improve Board meeting
attendance and proposed Michigan Plumbing Law's / 2000 Michigan Plumbing Code.
Old Business: Approve Plumbing Board Minutes
New Business: none
Next Plumbing Board meeting will be November 18, 2002, at 7:00 p.m.
0ank
ully,, ub itted
r'
irosius, Sr.
lumbing Inspector/Secretary
Draft date: October 21, 2002
Approved date: 1 , f
cc: Mayor's Office �/�
City Clerk's Office
Public file-original
Board Secretary
v¢'�1 S 1 NG DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING
AND
NEIGHBORHOOD
ICHIG DEVELOPMENT
316 N. Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm
NOVEMBER 18, 2002
MEMBERS PRESENT: TIM HAGGART, CHRIS SHERWOOD, STEVE RECK, TIM
WAITE, BILL POND
MEMBERS ABSENT: LYNN GUNTHORPE
STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., DAVE BURTON
Steve Reck called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. On a motion by Chris Sherwood, supported
by Bill Pond, the minutes of September 9, 2002 and October 14, 2002, were approved.
Old Business: None
New Business:
Drainlayer's Test: The Plumbing Board members present interviewed Anthony T. Sincole and
found him qualified to take the Drainlayer's Exam. Dave Burton, Plumbing Inspector,
administered the Drainlayer's Exam. Mr. Sincole scored 86%.
Elections were held. Tim Waite, seconded by Chris Sherwood, made the motion that Tim
Haggart is voted in as Chair of the Plumbing Board. A motion was made by Bill Pond,
Seconded by Tim Haggart, that Steve Reck be the vice Chair of the Plumbing Board. It was
moved, seconded and passed that the nominees be accepted as presented.
The Plumbing Board spent considerable time discussing a proposed Backflow Prevention
Program. A City Ordinance is needed to regulate cross connections with the public water
supply system. Discussion took place that the Board of Water and Light developed a cross
Minutes for Plumbing Board of ' heals—May 9, 2000 2
connection program and for the City of Lansing to pass an ordinance that would tie bar the
BW&L and the Plumbing Division into a cross connection program to be more aggressively
conducting inspections of industrial and commercial locations in the future and where a cross
connection risk occurs so that customers may be required to install protection and if a backflow
prevention devise is in place, for the customer to get that backflow prevention device tested and
certified by a backflow prevention certification specialist. The Board is continuing with that
discussion as soon as they get more information from the Board of Commissioners of the BW&L
or one of their representatives.
The Board also spent considerable time discussing updating and making changes to the
Plumbing Inspection Fee Schedule that is still in effect. That Fee Schedule was passed by
Council on July 1, 1998 and is still in effect and it needs to be updated so current fees are
reflected. The Board will continue to diligently work on updating the Plumbing Inspection Fee
Schedule.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:54 p.m. The next Plumbing Board meeting will be
December 9, 2002, at 7:00 p.m.
Resp fully
r-- 1
r irosius Sr., Secretary , Draft date: 11/25/02
Approved date:
cc: Mayor's Office Board Secretary
City Clerk's Office
Public file-original
Staff Representatives
S I �G LiEPARTMENT OF PANNING AND
NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT
316 N.Capitol Avenue,Suites C-1 • Lansing MI 48933-1238
(517)483-4355•FAX: (517)377-0169
I c H t C, BUILDING SAFETY OFFICE
David C. Hollister, Mayor
OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY OF LANSING
PLUMBING BOARD OF APPEALS
Held at 316 N. Capitol Ave. at 7:00 pm
December 9, 2002
MEMBERS PRESENT: TIM HAGGART, STEVE RECK, TIM WAITE, BILL POND, LYNN
GUNTHORPE
MEMBERS ABSENT: CHRIS SHERWOOD
STAFF PRESENT: FRANK EIROSIUS, SR., DAVE BURTON
Tim Haggart called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. On a motion by Bill Pond, supported by Lynn
Gunthorpe, the minutes of November 18, 2002, were approved.
Old Business:
The Plumbing Board reminisced about what happened to the 2000 Michigan Plumbing Code,
Plumbing Inspection Fee Schedule and Backflow Prevention Program.
New Business:
There was no other business so the Plumbing Board retired to Trippers Restaurant for the annual
Christmas Dinner.
fnkEirosius
mitted,
Sr., Secretary Draft date: January6, 2003
Approveddate:Office
City Clerk's Office
Board Secretary
Public file-original