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Home My WebLink About1997 EOCC MinutesCITY OF LANSEN(GIVE-ID ELECTED OFFICERS CO1 PAN. �ATIPN (7 COMMISSION , «SIENG CITY CLERK MINUTES TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25,1997 - 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR, LANSING CITY HALL 124 WEST MICHIGAN AVENUE LANSING, MICHIGAN CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:48 p.m. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Rosemarie Aquilina Elliot Glicksman Louanne Service Excused Absence: Margie McNutt Absent: Frederick Hogan Todd Derby Three members present and Three Members were absent. A quorum was not present. The Meeting convened as a Committee of the Whole per the recommendation Attorney Roberts. GUESTS AND STAFF: Roberta Albert, Citizen Derrick Quinney, Citizen Liza Estlund-Olson, Mayor's Staff Jack Roberts, Law Department Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary THE IMMEDIATE PAST CHAIR, COMMISSIONER SERVICE PRESIDES. The Commission discussed the following issues. Action was not taken due to the lack of a quorum. • Review of Draft #1 of the Commission Rules of Procedure. • Comparative information regarding Elected Officials Salaries and Fringe Benefits was requested. This matter to be discussed at the next commission meeting. • General Discussion of the proposed ordinances which would abolish the Commission which has been introduced by City Council. • Appointment of Recording Secretary. • Tentative Meeting Schedule. Monday, March 3, 1997 and Wednesday, March 5, 1997 at 5:30 p.m. • Tentative scheduling of interviews - Elected Officials. • Freedom of Information Update was requested by Commissioner Aquilina. • Tentative Agenda for the March 3, 1997, meeting - Rules of Procedure. - Appointment of Chair and Vice Chair. - Review of Informational Documents regarding Elected Official Salaries. - Report on the Financial Condition of the City. The summary is submitted for informational purposes only. Action is not necessary. Francesca Knot Recording Secretary Dated: March 3, 1997. ap (),wva 31,311 � CITY OF LANSING ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25,1997 - 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR, LANSING CITY HALL 124 WEST MICHIGAN AVENUE LANSING, MICHIGAN CALL TO ORDER:�< The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:48 p.m. — ROLL CALL: Members Present: Excused Absence: Absent: Rosemarie Aquilina Elliot Glicksman Louanne Service Margie McNutt Frederick Hogan Todd Derby Three members present and Three Members were absent. A quorum was not present. The Meeting convened as a Committee of the Whole per the recommendation Attorney Roberts. GUESTS AND STAFF: Roberta Albert, Citizen Derrick Quinney, Citizen Liza Estlund-Olson, Mayor's Staff Jack Roberts, Law Department Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary THE IMMEDIATE PAST CHAIR, COMMISSIONER SERVICE PRESIDES. The Commission discussed the following issues. Action was not taken due to the lack of a quorum. • Review of Draft #1 of the Commission Rules of Procedure. • Comparative information regarding Elected Officials Salaries and Fringe Benefits was requested. This matter to be discussed at the next commission meeting. • General Discussion of the proposed ordinances which would abolish the Commission which has been introduced by City Council. • Appointment of Recording Secretary. • Tentative Meeting Schedule. Monday, March 3, 1997 and Wednesday, March 5, 1997 at 5:30 p.m. • Tentative scheduling of interviews - Elected Officials. • Freedom of Information Update was requested by Commissioner Aquilina. • Tentative Agenda for the March 3, 1997, meeting - Rules of Procedure. - Appointment of Chair and Vice Chair. - Review of Informational Documents regarding Elected Official Salaries. - Report on the Financial Condition of the City. The summary is submitted for informational purposes only. Action is not necessary. Francesca Knot Recording Secretary Dated: March 3, 1997. �-) 7-q-7 RESC)LU�'l<:3t�f<7�i f ............................................... :::...: BY THE COMMrFrEE OF THE WHOLE RESOLVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LANSING WHEREAS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH CHAPTER 260 OF THE CITY CODE OF ORDINANCES THE ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION DETERMINES THE SALARIES OF THE CITY OF LANSING ELECTED OFFICIALS; AND WHEREAS, AS REQUIRED IN CHAPTER 260, THE COMMISSION MUST MEET PRIOR TO MARCH I IN EACH ODD -NUMBERED YEAR; AND WHEREAS, CHAPTER 260 ALSO REQUIRES THAT THE DATE, TIME AND LOCATION OF THE FIRST MEETING BE DESIGNATED BY COUNCIL RESOLUTION; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THE LANSING CITY COUNCIL HEREBY CONVENES THE ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION FOR ITS FIRST MEETING OF THE 1997 SESSION IN THE CITY COUNCIL CONFERENCE ROOM, LOCATED ON THE TENTH FLOOR OF LANSING CITY HALL, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1 997, AT 5:30 P.M. BY COUNCILMEMBER LEEMAN CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY y�'S S I �G CITY OF LAI, ,5-7NG., ELECTED OFFICERS IQOMPFN 5ATION COMMISSIO I ►lC N CjT; CLERK cHI�� MINUTES MONDAY, MARCH 3,1997 - 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR, LANSING CITY HALL 124 WEST MICHIGAN AVENUE LANSING, MICHIGAN CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:36 P.M. ROLL CALL: Commissioners Present: Rosemarie Aquilina Elliot Glicksman Frederick Hogan Margie McNutt Louanne Service All Commissioners were in attendance. GUESTS AND STAFF: Roberta Albert, Citizen Derrick Quinney, Citizen Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Greg Koessel, City Internal Auditor Robert Swanson, City Finance Director Heather Morgan, Lansing State Journal William Hubbell, Member of the Public APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA: COMMISSIONER GLICKSMAN MOVED THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT. THE MOTION CARRIED. BUSINESS SESSION: Election of Commission Chair and Vice Chair. Commissioner Glicksman was nominated by Commissioner Aquilina to serve as Chair of the Commission. Commissioner McNutt supported the nomination. Nominations were closed. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE NOMINATION OF COMMISSIONER GLICKSMAN TO SERVE AS COMMISSION CHAIR BE APPROVED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT. THE MOTION CARRIED. Commissioner McNutt nominated Commissioner Aquilina to serve as Vice - Chair of the Commission. Commissioner Service supported the nomination. The nominations were closed. COMMISSION MCNUTT MOVED THAT THE NOMINATION OF COMMISSIONER AQUILINA TO SERVE AS VICE -CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION BE APPROVED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER SERVICE. THE MOTION CARRIED. Approval of the Commission Administrative Rules of Procedure -- Draft #2. COMMISSIONER SERVICE MOVED THAT THE RULES OF PROCEDURE BE ADOPTED AS RECOMMENDED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT. THE MOTION CARRIED. The Rules of Procedure will be filed with the City Clerk. Approval of the Committee of the Whole Minutes. COMMISSIONER SERVICE MOVED THE APPROVAL OF THE FEBRUARY 25,1997, COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MINUTES. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER AQUILINA. THE MOTION CARRIED. REPORTS: Finance Director - Financial Condition of the City. Mr. Swanson, City Finance Director made a verbal presentation to the Commission regarding the financial condition of the City of Lansing. Stabilization Fund Balance is $7.6 Million which is 8.5% of the General Fund Balance. The Administration's goal is to increase this fund to 10% of the General Fund - Fund Balance. The fund was initially started/funded at 7%. 4% of the General Fund budget is dedicated to infrastructure needs. ($20 Million). Traditionally the City of Lansing had spent approximately 1 % of the General Fund budget on its infrastructure. The budget recommendation forthcoming in Fiscal Year 97-98, is that approximately 5.2% be dedicated to infrastructure needs. Mr. Swanson indicated that this was the fourth year that the Mayor's proposed budget has been, in essence, a balanced budget -- revenues cover the expenditures. Long term agreements have been negotiated and are now staggered in terms of expiration to 2 1/2 to 3 years. The City of Lansing's credit rating has improved. Mr. Swanson indicated that the General Fund budget is approximately $89,672,166 and is very solid and stable. An increase will not occur in regard to assessments based upon the passage of Proposal A which places a cap of $2.8%. It is expected that in Fiscal Year 1997-98, City income tax revenues will increase approximately 2 1/2%, State Revenue Sharing funds will increase approximately 3%, Property tax revenues will increase approximately 3%. The average increase in total revenue sources is expected to be approximately 3%. Approximately 60% of the total General Fund budget is committed to salaries, wages and fringes. Mr. Swanson distributed copies of the Michigan Municipal League Salary Comparisons for Cities over 100,000 in population, and an informational packet of the salaries and wages in Michigan Municipalities over 1,000 in population. Internal Auditor Report Regarding Councilmember Expense Accounts: City Internal Auditor Greg Koessel distributed copies of a written report explaining the Councilmembers account information and the general criteria utilized by the Councilmembers for expenditures from the account. In 1991, the Councilmembers expense accounts increase from $1,500 to $2,000 annually. In 1996, a Conference and Training Account was established in the amount of $10,000, which provided the necessary funding for two Councilmembers to attend the Michigan Municipal League Conference and the National League of Cities Conference. Mr. Koessel advised the Commission that the City Attorney has the overriding authority to rule whether an expenditure is legal. The majority of the Councilmembers utilize their expense accounts to support community functions and to donate to neighborhood organizations, and community events. One or two member expend approximately 60% of this account. Rarely in the total account expended. The Elected Officials have the identical fringe benefit package as other full time City employees and the opt out plan is available to Elected Officials, retirement, health care, dental, etc. REVIEW OF INFORMATION MATERIALS REQUESTED OF THE ADMINISTRATION: The Commissioners reviewed the materials regarding salary comparisons. It was noted for the record that three of the Eight Department Directors make the maximum amount within their salary range -- City Attorney, $85,296; Chief of Police, $85,130; and the Parks and Recreation Director, $81 ,104. Mr. Koessel provided the Commission with information relative to the responsibility differences between a Councilmember and the Council President and Vice -President. Commissioner Glicksman noted that the Mayor's salary is not the highest, which was the intention of the Commission during the last session. The Commission's position, during the previous deliberations, was that the Mayor should be the highest salaried employee within City Government. It was noted for the record, Mr. Swanson, reported that several department level positions were re-classified last year through the Hay process, which is the process utilized by the City of Lansing. It was noted for the record, that the Councilmembers for the City of Detroit are the only full-time Councilmembers within the State of Michigan. SCHEDULING OF MEETING SCHEDULE: The following meeting scheduled was set by the Commissioners: Monday, March 3 5:30 p.m., Wednesday, March 5 5:30 p.m., Wednesday, March 12 5:30 p.m., Monday, March 17 5:30 p.m., Thursday, March 20 6:15 p.m., Tenth Floor, City Hall Tenth Floor, City Hall Tenth Floor, City Hall Tenth Floor, City Hall Tenth Floor, City Hall COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE CHAIR ASK THE COUNCIL VICE- PRESIDENT TO ANNOUNCE THE COMMISSION'S MEETING SCHEDULE DURING THE COUNCIL MEETING THIS EVENING. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT AND CARRIED. PUBLIC COMMENT: None. ADJOURNMENT: 7:00 p.m. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary THE MINUTES WERE APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION ON Francesca Knot Recording Secretary Dated: March 3, 1997. CITY OF LANSING ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION MINUTES WEDNESDAY, MARCH 5,1997 - 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR, LANSING CITY HALL 124 WEST MICHIGAN AVENUE LANSING, MICHIGAN CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:32 P.M. ROLL CALL: Commissioners Present: Elliot Glicksman, Chair Rosemarie Aquilina, Vice -Chair Frederick Hogan Margie McNutt Louanne Service All Commissioners were in attendance. Z-5 GUESTS AND STAFF: Roberta Albert, Citizen Derrick Quinney, Citizen Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Joan Bauer, Councilmember David C. Hollister, Mayor Paul Novak, Councilmember Harold Leeman, Jr., Council Vice -President Ellen Beal, Council President Pete Bosheff, Citizen APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA: COMMISSIONER MCNUTT MOVED THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. THE MOTION CARRIED. BUSINESS SESSION - INTERVIEWS: Chairperson Glicksman announced that the Councilmembers and the Mayor were invited to appear before the Commission and present any written documents regarding salaries and compensation and explain the role of an Elected Official. Member Leeman submitted a written summary. Councilmember Benavides could not be attendance, as he had a family commitment in Jackson. (Subsequently, he attended the March 12, 1997 meeting) Councilmember Lilly could not be in attendance due to a family commitment. Councilwoman Allen was not in attendance (Subsequently, she attended and was interviewed on March 12, 1997). Councilmember Jones was on vacation. INTERVIEW OF COUNCILMEMBER AT LARGE JOAN BAUER: Councilmember Bauer was recently elected in 1996. She works fool time at Michigan Capital Health Care and she estimates that in an average week t she spends 15 hours on Council duties and activities. 6 hours of actual meeting time. She serves on three committees that meet bi-weekly - maybe 3 hours per week. 2 hours in preparation time per week. 3 hours on the average spent on a community activity. Based on her fool time job she attend may of these community events anyway. Bauer: My only other comment when it comes to compensation, I think the hardest the decision that you all have is to really judge how much of what we do should be public service. When I entered this, to be honest, I didn't even know we were paid. So I am in a little different situation. I was quite surprised when I found out it was a paid position. I am the director of volunteer services at a hospital and a community volunteer and I had never been paid for anything I had done outside of my job so it was quite a surprise to me. So I think part of it is balancing how much should really be public service. The other issue is, at this point, it is still a part time position. The Charter is pretty clear on that. When I took on the position, I did so as a part time position. I never really felt that it was going to be something that I couldn't do in 15-20 hours per week, or obviously I would have never been able to take it on. I think the other issue if we decide that it really takes a lot more time than that, then probably we should be looking at the City at changing the role of the Council and changing the Charter. Aquilina: Do you receive benefits? Bauer: I think so. I think we have some health benefits. We don't have vacation time but we do get retirement. Aquilina: What kind of raise do you feel, if any, you would like to see? Bauer: Well, I think this is the hardest part in deciding compensation. If I look at the time I spend, which again, I would estimate it at 15 hours per week. For me personally, it seems like a pretty fair compensation. The difficulty is we have Councilmembers who spend much more time than I do. The other thing I should add is being an at large Councilmember, I do not have the constituent issues. I may have to return two or three telephone calls per week, compared to my colleagues, who are ward, and they have a lot more work in terms of one on one constituent work. Hogan: Since you have been on the Council do you limit your time to 15 hours because you feel that is adequate or do you limit it to 15 hours because you feel like that is all you can do? Bauer: I think again, it is how you define the role of our Council. I think 15 hours is adequate for a part time Council that is supposed to be making policy and not managing the day to day activities of the City. Again, some weeks it is Twenty -Twenty Five hours and some weeks it is Ten hours. I limit it based on the scope of the way that l look at the position. Now if I were retired, I could spend ten hours per day doing this because there is always more you could learn, more you could read. More community activities you could attend. That is a real hard question. I don't limit it to the Fifteen, but when I really averaged it out that is really what on an average week, it probably takes me to do what I think the job is, as I define it. Hogan: Have you every thought about the Council job becoming a full time job? Bauer: Well, for some people it is. You will be interviewing some of our Councilmembers, and I talked to Alfreda Schmidt the other day and she was down here eight hours per day, day in and day out. If we did that, I am not sure - you would have to redefine the job. if our job is to set policy overall. If we all were here full time. I would have concerns about Councilmembers getting too involved in the day to day business of the City. Unless we defined what our role was. Unless we wanted a strong Council, City Manager type of government or something. Glicksman: When you are faced with some policy decisions that the Council's responsibility has of significance and perhaps there is controversy involved, the Mayor's Office may take one point of view and Council another and eventually it is going to have to be resolved. What kinds of time and what kind of help would you find it necessary to have. Like research clerks. More program development and is this important. I Bauer: I think it is critically important. That is one piece that would be very helpful for me that if on any issue, if we had an analysis done ahead of time that would outline the issue. Point out the pros and cons of whatever decision we were being asked to make. That would help immensely in terms of support staff. Other than that, I would add to that, I was very pleasantly surprised that when I took this position on to find that we had excellent office support. People who do such a good job. I find it hard to believe that they would just call me and tell me it is all taken care of... There would not be the time to do some of those things. The analysis piece would be very helpful and has been lacking a bit. Glicksman: How do you resolve that currently? Bauer: Either try to find out yourself the information. Listen to the debate as it happens. Hogan: If you had more support staff, would that cut your hours down per week? Bauer: Probably not mine. Maybe other Councilmembers. I could not do the job justice much less than what I spend. If anything it would be nice to have the time to get out and really get a sense of what people really think. You get pretty isolated here. Aquilina: You are not advocating a raise at this point? Bauer: That is a very hard thing for me to answer. This is my personal opinion for me, Joan Bauer. I think that what I receive as a compensation for this position is adequate. Again, I have colleagues who spend much greater periods of time than I do. Glicksman: Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. INTERVIEW OF MAYOR DAVID C. HOLLISTER: Hollister: I want to reaffirm your position last time on the public policy of having the Mayor being the highest paid employee. I think that was an important adjustment to make. I think that as a policy issue is one you ought to continue. As far as raises, I think you have gotten the data on our employment contracts are fairly modest. I think a modest increase, if any, would be in the 2 1/2 to 3 percent range consistent with our collective bargaining. I would agree that Council could use staff support. I think that would be helpful. When I was in the Legislature, we had a House Fiscal Agency and we had a section that does nothing but non partisan analysis of every bill. There was a format for every bill to make a decision from and I think that would be something that could be developed. I do not support a full time Council. I helped write the revised Charter. It failed the first time. One of the reasons it failed, was the issue of residency. When residency was taken out it passed. We have gone from a period when you had a fairly strong Council and a weak Mayor to a strong Mayor. Making that transition has been difficult. I think that kind of explains some of the struggle that currently is experienced and it is an institutional struggle more than it is a personality that I have tried to assert the role of a strong Mayor and the Council continues in some circumstances to want to be operating the way they did under the old Charter and that is a point of contention and issue. If you go back and look at the Charter Commission and you look at the old Charter and the new Charter, it is clear this should be a part time function. It should develop the policy and do oversight and it should not micro -manage. I think if you have people down here full time, I think they would be doing nothing but micro -managing and that would not serve this City well. Glicksman: You mentioned that it would be helpful if Council had staff support or more staff support, especially in the analytical appeal. How could the Commission exercise jurisdiction in regard to something like that? Hollister: The commission can make a recommendation. We do have a hiring freeze that would be something we would have to consider in the budget and would have to redefine. I don't know if the entire Council would agree on that. There has been discussion with what to do with the vacancy they currently have and how they will deal with that and I will defer to Council on that. If you want to honor the public's wishes to be part time you have to give them the resources to make valid policy judgments and I think we have a wealth of people in this community who are skilled analyzing legislation and I think they could play a positive role if that is what Council chose to do. Aquilina: Mayor, you said you are in favor of a modest increase of 2 1/2 to 3 percent. Would you like to see that in one lump or two? So that it is divided. Hollister: I think that keeping it as consistent with our collective bargaining units as possible. When we have good years, give it to the employees. When we don't, we have to hold the line. We have had a couple of years when we can give the 3% and people seem to be satisfied. I don't think we need to be compensated ourselves beyond what we are asking others to do. Hogan: Mayor Hollister, we talked about a support staff. Would this support staff be a central staff just for the Council or would it be a support staff to serve other members of Government. Hollister: No, I would say this is Council. I don't want to get in the middle of Council. How they do things. You know you always want more information. I think the current tendency is to get to spend more time in here and if the option was to have a staff person, who was professional, and who had a format and an agreed on way to analyze and to keep people informed, I think there would be a consensus to do that. That would be an expensive proposition. You would have to add an FTE (Full time employee) and those are not easy things to do and I don't want to come here representing that I know what is best for Council. I kind of made that in reference to me as a Legislator. I've always said that I would rather have a staff than compensation for myself. Most people who are in this are not in it for compensation. That has been my experience. Most people who really serve government and serve it well would rather have the tools than the big pay. There is so much cynicism out there. If you go out there and create a big pay there is going to be a terrible backlash. I deeply believe that. Glicksman: Thank you very much. INTERVIEW OF COUNCILMEMBER PAUL NOVAK: Novak: I think Ward Councilmembers typically receive more of what I refer to as the mundane types of constituent issues that are referred to other departments and County government. Ward Councilmembers receive more constituent calls. I would favor a full ward Council with eight ward positions. I think there would be more direct representation of different portions of the City if that occurred and rather than having a ward Councilmember represent roughly 30,000 to 35,000 constituents, you would break that in half. I think that would be a moremanageable number. You may lose the kind of the grand perspective that an at large Councilmember would have not having to rely upon a constituency who is narrowly defined and more geographically apportioned to the City. I do think the constituent call load is a little bit heavier for Ward Councilmembers. The amount of time I spend on Council varies dramatically from week to week. 5 to 10 hours to a high end of around 25 hours depending on whether we are in the budget season or have some other types of meetings that are taking a tremendous amount of time. [He then referenced the meeting schedule including Council, committee meetings and neighborhood functions and Regional governmental boards.] The biggest policy issue that faces Council is whether it is a full time or a part time function. If it is a part time function, I think the compensation at where it is now appropriate and actually wouldn't advocate an increase of that. $14,000 is already at the point where there are citizens in this City who work on a full time basis and receive that amount of compensation. If we started pushing beyond that, we would essentially start attracting to serve on Council as a full time job. If we are going to move in that direction, then we should just amend the Charter and probably offer a salary closer to the $35,000 or $40,000 range. Hogan: What do you feel about a support staff? Novak: I think that the current number of positions we have is probably about right. The biggest issues that I see that come with support staff are using them in manners that are appropriately identified in advance and agreed upon. For instance, there have been requests of the Internal Auditor over the last couple of years to write speeches for meetings that particular Councilmembers have outside of Council, dealing with a civics group or something or things that would fall outside of the Internal Audit function. I think we probably could do a better job of delineating the job responsibilities of the staff that we have area and then communicating what our expectations are to assure that the staff is adequately responding to what Councilmembers' needs are. I also think that bringing computers into each Council office, or available to each Councilmember would be a tremendous advantage. It would allow us to communicate a lot more effectively than we do now with each other through the use of e-mail and that kind of thing. Safeguards would have to be appropriately built. Hogan: The staff that you now have could be better utilized? Novak: I think that the role that they play should be more effectively defined so that we utilize them in a manner that is appropriate and also that assures there accessibility to all of the Councilmembers for legitimate staff functions. Quinney: Has your time spent on the position increased more as you get further into the term? Novak: It has been about the same. There are seasonal variations. I guarantee you that the first week of warm weather we get will generate a host of complaints regarding noise from neighbors, smells of dogs next door, and a variety of other types of things that come every spring. There are some things that always come in when the snow melts. You have those seasonal variations as well as some of an upkick in constituent inquiries once people are aware that you are there and that you are their Councilmember. Aquilina: You are not advocating a raise. What would you say, for example, no raise in July and a raise beginning in January? Novak: I wouldn't advocate for it for a two year period. By Charter we are part time legislators and I think that if we continue to bump up the salary we are getting close to the point that people will seek Council positions not as part time positions but as full time jobs. If we are going to be comprised as legislators take this task as a full time job, then I think we are talking about an entirely different salary level then a bump of $1,000 or $2,000. Glicksman: Could you comment on your position concerning the role of Council in terms of what the Charter seems to suggest of policy only, and not micro manage and some Councilpersons probably thought they are here a lot to help in the managing of the City. Would you care to express a view there? Novak: Probably the most appropriate example that I could identify that goes into the micro -management function that Councilmembers do perform are straight constituent response type of issues which often times do relate to micro -management issues. The placement of a stop sign on a particular street. The response of a code compliance officer to deal with a problem at a particular house. You know, there are a variety of constituent inquiries that almost beg the questions on delving into some of the minutia. We have talked about, but haven't really effectively begun to develop a solution for it sittingdown and developing long range planning type of policies that is more consistent with the policy making legislative role that is identified in the Charter. You know, looking at what we expect the applicable Millage rate to be five years from now. Looking at infrastructure investment in the City to insure that the existing capital assets that the City has are appropriately maintained as well as whatever new ones might be acquired or developed. I would add at some point I will propose that the Charter be amended to reduce the number of Monday night Council meetings we have. We are obligated under the Charter to have 50 per year and there are numerous occasions where the Monday night meeting is comprised of an hour of public comment at the beginning and two or three extremely routine items that we take action on and then another hour of Councilmember comments and public comments at the end of the meeting. Where the actual work that the Council had done over the course of the two and half hour meeting could have been disposed of in probably three minutes which was not controversial at all and could have easily waited until the next Council meeting. If we did that it might affect the structure as to how committee meetings are scheduled and enable us to spend a little more time on some of the other things. Aquilina: You said that you work a minimum of five to ten hours and a maximum of 25 hours and it varies. Is it fair to say, looking at the last year on an average you spend 18.to 20 hours per week? Novak: 15 to 20 is the range. Aquilina: So you say about 18. Novak: There will be 5 hours on Monday night. After that if all I do is one or two committee .meetings, then I am up to 10, and if I hit one neighborhood function during the week, it is another 2 or 3 hours and spend 2 or 3 hours on the telephone, I am probably at 15. That is a typical week. In weeks where Committee of the Whole doesn't meet or some of my other committees don't meet, or that pesky day job kind of gets in the way and demands my attention in something, then it will be less. Hogan: If you had to suggest to a person interested in becoming a Councilmember, would you suggest that they not have ajob when they took the Council position? Novak: No. But I think they would have to work out with their employer beforehand an understanding that there would need to be some flexibility. The State allows employees to take voluntary pay reduction so I have used that to reduce the hours over at the State. The hours are not really reduced. They just get redistributed. Glicksman: Thank you very much. INTERVIEW OF COUNCIL PRESIDENT ELLEN BEAL. Beal: You have probably recalled from two years ago that I think that the Council salary is low, on the low end. [She distributed an informational fact sheet prepared by the Internal Auditor comparison of elected official salaries in cities more than 100,0000 in population.] As you look at them you will note that if you want to compare the elected officials salaries to urban Cities, Flint, Grand Rapids, I would think you would note that we are low and also a number of these cities have city managers which clearly makes a huge difference in terms of the workload. I came to the conclusion that the salaries are low really based on my five years as a County Commissioner. The work load is about double of the work that I did there. I chaired a major committee and the County Commission serves as a legislative and an administrative function. I thought I was doing a lot more work as a City Councilmember. My understanding is the Commissioners' salaries are up to $12,000 and the Chair is at $18,000. Again, from the work load, the $14,000 is low. Also, I had our Auditor prepare the numbers dealing with the last time in regards to the percentages of increases [submitted another fact sheet] I was a little perplexed that your rationale last time when you sort of gave the different increases because -- You gave the Mayor a 14% increase and you gave the Clerk a huge increase and I guess it was based upon comparing it with clerks around the State. You didn't look at the number of duties that have been moved over the County Clerk. The County Clerk has taken on a lot. They do birth and death records that the City Clerk used to do. They no longer have that function. We have a City Clerk that has less functions than our County Clerk and our County Clerk makes $10,000 less. found that really surprising and the rationale with the City Council, I think what you said was, that we had given the union increases of 10% or something over the last five years so that was what you were going to give us. It didn't seem to be a consistent rationale. That not withstanding, I guess it really varies. The Councilmembers that preceded me, neither of them chair a major committee. I think Councilmember Bauer is correct. She probably does the absolute minimum in terms of being on the Council and there are a number of us who put more time and effort into it. She has a very demanding job. It does seem to me, $17,000 or $18,000 would be more in the ball park. I figure if we are part time or half time, certainly being Council President, I spend well over 20-25 hours per week. The Vice -President certainly spends as much because they are in charge of managing the staff. If you were going to pay a position $40,000 for full time. It seems to me $17,000, 18,000 or $20,000 would be reasonable for half time. That's my logic. That is my position on it. That because there is this variety how much people actually bring to the job. The Council is the last resort when people can't get to the Mayor's Office. We deal with huge issues: The Civil Rights Ordinance, Stormwater and the March for Justice issue which are very time consuming things. I suggest an alternative would be for the commission to look at a per diem per meeting for Councilmembers. It would be to add additional, bookkeeping, it would add additional work on our staff to keep track of that. Service: The comparison - was it Michigan Municipal League? Beal: No. Our Internal Auditor called those cities and got that information as of yesterday so it is more up to date. Service: These are part time Councilmembers? Beal: Yes. Again, personally, I prefer a City manager system. I would love to see the Charter change. I sit by Jim Smiertka at the Council meetings, and it is just so political here. He said, well they never had this in Kalamazoo. I said, why not? He said, City Manager. I think we would solve a lot of our problems that way. That is just my position. You know just get rid of the wrangling and the politics. Aquilina: What percentage raise is $17,000 or $18,0000? Beal: For so many years the Council did not vote themselves increases so it stayed low historically. If you went to $18,000, you are only talking about $32,000 impact for the year. This would bring us up to a certain level of parody in terms of the increases that the Clerk and the Mayor saw. I would not look at going beyond that for a number of years. I think we have historically been low and we need to come up to a level that is reasonable. I understand Councilmember Novak's concern about people looking at it as full time job but it is important for you to understand that not all of us have State jobs that we can take leave time from. I think you do tend to attract people that have more flexibility and you are kind of ruling out people. I teach school and when I take time off work, I lose money. You have to accommodate those kinds of people also if you want to get a wide range of people. Most of the people we had on the Council were kind of bureaucrats in terms of people that could fit their schedules or they were ,retired. I think you want to try to draw from people that are in business. Aquilina: The $17,000 or $18,000 is that for a member and would you increase that for President and Vice -President? Beal: I would put it at $18,000. President and Vice -President you are only talking about two Councilmembers. Again; some of Councilmembers may come to Committee of the Whole and not know what is going on. There are not too many of them like that. Committee Chairs visit the sites, etc. Councilmembers want to know the impact of our actions. That is not micro -managing but whatever actions we take, Councilmembers want to know how it is going to impact the community. Keep it at that level and add $750, and $1,500 for the Council Vice - President and President. Glicksman: The Commission is committed in policy, in recognizing the differences of the added responsibility of the President and Vice - President. What is your comment on Councilman Novak's concern that if you have it got it near anything more than what it is it would draw people who otherwise would be less than competent to serve. I don't want to put words in his mouth but.. Beal: That is assuming we are all confident. I mean. My own feeling is there are certain regulars that sign up and run for election. They don't win. You have to be pretty competent to run a campaign and win an election and raise money. I would like to have a little more confidence in the Lansing voters than that. There is a certain level of competence you have to attain to even get elected. You want to attract people from all areas. I don't think most people would want to live on $17,000 per year. I certainly wouldn't want to. I think that if people have to attend something, people should not be penalized for staying late for a meeting, etc. Hogan: Would you be opposed to a raise for Councilmembers to be in the form of compensation, in terms of going to meetings. Beal: You mean office holders account? Hogan: Yes. Beal: I would be very opposed to that. I end up turning mine back usually at the end of ever year. I am not a big winer and diner type. It is just too fattening. Glicksman: Would you like some cookies? Beal: I feel like that is so limited. If someone wants to come and talk to me about an issue. I meet with them in my officer before a meeting. I have a child at home. I need to be not have a lot of lunches and my work schedule does not allow it anyway. So if you are not talking to some developer who is lobbying for some zoning change, because I just don't do that kind of thing. You are so limited on what you can spend that money on. I would not support that. I think that. Again, then you have situations like.. As a Mother, I either have my son here or I pay a baby- sitter. You have all of these circumstances in life and they shouldn't be a drawback to being on City Council. Did you want to ask me about the staff as I was a former Vice -President? I did take a little issue in terms of the suggestion that was made that we could be clearer about communicating with the staff about what our wishes are. At least I feel, that we have worked very hard with the staff to create a really strong team and I think, Fran's here, she would probably concur with that. I am very direct and straightforward but also wanted to make sure that our Council staff is successful and is really clear in terms of what their job responsibilities are. I think the number of staff we have at this time is adequate. I do think, I am sure you are aware, there is some changing going on and we are looking to bring someone on board that can do the kind of thing that Joan Bauer was talking about - legislative analysis. Doing a little better job working for the media. The Mayor has his own P.R. firm. We don't. We are on the short end of that. Also, possibly doing more things with Channel 28, in terms of communicating with the public. I don't think you do not want a Council that is spoon fed, either by the Administration or by staff members or anybody. We need to do our own analysis. One of the reasons we had early retirement happened to this City is because we had a Council that had been in a long time. They did not scrutinize the whole thing. They just simply took the word of the Administration. This is what we should do and they did. I don't agree with micro -managing at all. We have a relatively new administration. A lot of that people that came in with that administration had no experience with the City and they have been sort of learning as they go too. One of our jobs, that I take very seriously, is budgetary oversight and making sure that we are accountable in terms of money. I think that, that requires an adequate time to do that. It is a lot of stuff. We have over a $100 Million budget. Service: Is the Council's budget in terms of staffing, computers -- do you have to develop a budget? Beal: Absolutely. We have an employee that I do believe will be taking retirement and then we will fill that position. We will not be bringing anyone else on board. I wanted to correct something. Our Internal Auditor was formerly on the Council staff. When early retirement came along the Internal Audit position was opened up. I don't believe he has written anybody's speeches lately. He develops our budget and has to defend it to the Administration. Service: Since our charge here is to look at the salaries and compensation of the Councilmembers, and employee benefits. Would you recommend any method, while discussion staffing, by which we could draw attention to this need in our report. Beal: As former Vice -President of the Council, in my opinion we are very adequately staffed. We don't have a need to add additional staffing. We need to get a job description and a person in place that is going to do what we need. Aquilina: How many hours do spend as President per week? Beal: Any good ward Councilmember is probably spending 20 hours per week. You need to attend neighborhood meetings. You get a lot of telephone calls. At large the calls are little bit less, but you have just as many obligations of attending meetings people want you to be at. The At Large Councilmembers probably spend more time on the broader issues,such as the stormwater issue. Looking at the whole relationship between the City and the Schools. Serving as Vice President and President, it has been more. Probably Vice -President and President spend 25 -30 Hours per week. On an average - 15 hours, from someone doing the absolute minimum and does not chair a major committee -- upper $20's. Again, you may want to look at the per diem method realizing that someone would have to be assigned to keep track of it. Glicksman: Thank you. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • INTERVIEW OF COUNCIL VICE-PRESIDENT HAROLD LEEMAN, JR. Vice -President Leeman, submitted a written statement/letter to the Commission, which is attached for the record. Leeman: This has been my schedule since becoming elected on January 1, 1996.. You never believe until after you get on the Council, what is demanded upon your time from constituents. From people in City Hall. The amount of paperwork you receive. I represent 32,0000 residents. My Ward is a large Ward. I Chair the Public Service Committee which had to deal with the Rain Fee implementation. The bills went out in December of 1995 and I came on January 1, 1996.. You can not believe the time and energy you put in on this. We did a lot of cosmetic things to make it easier such as you don't have to pay until you area. It is not going to go away until a decision is made one way or another. The Committee also overseas the Public Service Department, the Public Service Board, Parks Board and the infrastructure of this City Hall and the other buildings. Ways and Means deals with money matters. Public Safety deals with Fire, Police, Building Departments and traffic issues. The Intergovernmental Relations Committee dealt last year with forming a district library. Tri County Regional Planning Commission is a 19 member board. Three Council representatives serve on this board. The board meets monthly and committee meetings occur within the month. I am the liaison person between the City Council and the Capital Regional Airport Authority. I really think the citizens that I represented in 1996, definitely got their money's worth. (Vice President Leeman referenced approximately 25 community and neighborhood groups of which he is involved as a Councilmember. He attends many of these meetings, etc. Subsequent to this meeting, he submitted the list of groups in written form to the Commission) In 1996, we dealt with the Rain fee, the Equal Rights Amendment, budget, March for Justice issues. When you put all of these things together as a Ward Councilmember to deal with and being yelled at on Monday nights an individual should be compensated for the time and energy you put in. Even though the amount of money that is being paid right now has been set two years ago, there are Councilmembers that do a lot., Some just do the minimum amount and others will not. I believe I put a lot of time and energy in last year. This year, not only as Vice -President, which mainly deals with the staff supervision, and I chair Public Services again. I am a member of Intergovernmental Relations. I became the Chair or Tri County Regional Planning Commission this year. I am also a member of the Greater Lansing and Visitor's Convention Bureau. I am a member of Tri County employment consortium. I know I put in at least 40 hours per week. I am not ashamed to say that. I would like to say that if we had a time clock around here, see people punching in and see how much time we put around here, you would be amazed. Like I said, it depends on each Councilmember - Ward Councilmembers are more deluged with constituent types of matters. It comes with the territory. I think at the Council level, local level, I do more than County Commissioners. Way more. I know that if you looked at some of these State Representatives across the street, that they are not deluged like the Councilmember from the First Ward concerning all kinds of issue. They have a big staff. In State Government -- Local government we are on the line every day. This might be outrageous to think that this Committee would appropriate $42,000 per year to a Councilmember over the next six years to implement. That is my true feeling as to this Ward's Councilmember and the amount of time and energy I put in. I am sure that this Board will not recommend this type of salary but that is my true feeling. If you represent 32,000 people, what is one dollar per person to be represented by a quality person that I consider myself. I do have a Bachelors Degree from Michigan State University. I know what this job is all about now. It took me a year. I knew coming in a lot, but you can never imagine how much time and energy you have to put in and people are always calling you. I think that we should raisethe stereotype that local officials don't deserve anything. The mindset that they are rotten to the core type of attitude that our society has.... We have no control about the other things in our Country about people who screw up and make our system look bad regarding elected officials. I know that this elected official believes that we should be paid for the work and the quality of work that we do and that if people understand that we are doing the kind of work, that we should be compensated properly. I think we should rise above this low pay if you want to attract the kind of people. I was attracted to this, not because of the pay, but because I wanted to do something for this Ward and I know I have accomplished a lot. I do think that you should compensate properly for the amount of time and energy you put in. If you have any questions, you have itemized the type of questions you put down there. I know that I am confident of this Ward now because I had to understand it better over the last year. I know where all of the hot spots are. There are still hot spots. McNutt: Do you feel that Councilmembers should be full time? Leeman: I believe Ward One should be full time. Now regarding other wards, and the amount of time and energy that is needed, I would have to say, yes, because if they had more time to put in 40 hours -- like I do, they would, like I do. Fo.r instance on Saturday, I had to follow up on visiting constituents. I believe that it should full time and the At Large also. It all comes down to the person that is in that seat. McNutt: Do you work full time? Leeman: No. McNutt: So, you just do this City Council? Leeman: Yes. McNutt: My other question is, all of these different committees, who was the Councilmember before you were in this ward? Leeman: Ellen. McNutt: So was she on all of these different committees. The other list that you referred to. Is that mandatory? Leeman: No. These are all of the organizations that are in my ward. Neighborhood groups, business groups. I try to attend their meetings or I keep in contact with them. I would have to say, if you look at all of these, I have attended 90% of the their meetings. This is not -- this is basically - this is your constituency and you keep in contact with them and it just depends on how much time and energy you want to put in regarding making sure that they see you. They bring up questions, whatever. McNutt: So you are suggesting that as a part time Councilmember, this $42,000? Leeman: Yes, that would be full time yes. When I was on the other side of the table and sitting in the audience I remember talking to Lou Adado, and I said, we should get a time clock in here to see how much time that people put in. You know, that was over ten years ago. I really believe if you put -- We have instituted something with my staff regarding work reports. I request work reports every week as to what the staff did on how they spent their time. If you got work reports from the Council, at least this Councilmember, you would be surprised on how much you are involved. Aquilina: Your recommendation is based on full time? Leeman: Right. Aquilina: You are not full time so what do you - what is your recommendation for part time? Leeman: Well, I consider when you look at the Charter and the part time issue, I think it is a joke. I think part time. If you look at one schedule, my schedule, you would say that it is full time. If it is full time -- if you want to put part time is 40 hours, I believe that is the type of payment that one should be paid. 40 hours. 40 hours is what this Councilmember puts in and I should be compensated for that. This word game about part time, full time, is a joke regarding that this is not a part time job. Hogan: I would like to know, most of the people we have talked to in the past have said that they put in no more than about 25 hours per week, give or take a few hours. You said that you put in about 40 hours a week. I would like to know, do you think you could do an effective job if you put in 20 hours per week? Leeman: No. There is no way. There is no way I could be effective. I remember Pat Lindemann when he had this seat and he ran his store and tried to balance all of these things. It catches up after awhile. It catches up when you are not in tune with the constituency in dealing with things and you know can try and full people once but you are not going to full them twice in trying to make sure that you follow up. 0 Hogan: I heard a couple of other people talk about other staff members. Do you think that if you had more staff or if you had staff that you could designate to follow up on some of these things... Leeman: I think we are going through a change right now regarding how we want to use our staff more effectively and the staff is - the three secretaries are the ones that are communicating. When I was just a private citizen, you know you would come up and see them, but when you are here and you know, I could confidently say, they try and do as much as they can per day. But when you have eight Councilmembers, and this Councilmember likes to at least -- they give me the message. I try and deal with the constituent directly and find out what is going on and I use my staff if I need letters for - need them to give me some advice as to who to call. It has been a Iearning process. I know the majority of it now. You want to try to deal with the person first and deal with the issue and then I get my staff involved. It is just that I think we are going through a process now, I will talk to my Councilmembers and figure out what we want to do with our staff. Do we need more? What are they going to do for us in helping this office on the tenth floor be more effective on getting back to the constituents and all of these kinds of things. We are trying e- mail and all of these things. Quinney: Before becoming a Councilmember of the First Ward, of those committees that you listed, how many of those were you involved with? Leeman: l never went to Gier, Basically I came out of the Eastside Neighborhood Organization and all of these other groups I had never attended because that was their little area they lived in. In the Ward One you have all kinds of organization, business groups. I attended from 1978 until I got on Council, I came out of Eastside Neighborhood Organization and that is the majority of the eastside. Glicksman: Given the fact that we are statutorily or constitutionally prohibited from making any recommendation of a position that is part time. That is all of the jurisdiction that we have. As far as understanding the City Charter, it would take a City Charter change by a vote of the people, so arguing full time or concepts of qualities of full time, at this point seems, I want to choose my words very carefully, seems an exaggeration of reality. What in your mind is an appropriate salary for a Councilman who is .active, considerate of their constituency but is a part time position. Leeman: I really believe that this body should come out publicly and endorse changing the Charter to full time and I believe to start off with the reality that right now it is part time. That $14,000 right now - I think it is going to be a little over $20,000 or $24,000 but I really do think that it would be a start in the right direction. My expense account, I have purchased baseball tickets for a neighborhood group called Hunter Park West where a lot of families went. We are inundated all of the time with requests to try and help them out. Conclusion of Interviews scheduled for this session. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT COUNCILMEMBERS BENAVIDES, JONES, LILLY, ALLEN AND CITY CLERK SLADE BE PROVIDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAR BEFORE THE COMMISSION ON MARCH 12, 1997. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER HOGAN. THE MOTION CARRIED. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, March 12,1997 at 5:30 p.m., Tenth Floor Conference Room, City Hall. NEW BUSINESS: MEMBER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATIONAL PACKETS BE PROVIDED BY MS. KNOT FOR THE COMMISSION PRIOR TO THE INITIAL MEETING OF THE EOCC. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT AND CARRIED. PUBLIC COMMENT: None. ADJOURNMENT: IT WAS MOVED BY COMMISSIONER AQUILINA THAT THE MEETING BE ADJOURNED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT. 7:28 p.m. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary THE MINUTES WERE APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION ON 4`1 2 '' 7 CITY OF LANSING ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:35 P.M. ROLL CALL: Commissioners Present: Elliot Glicksman, Chair Rosemarie Aquilina, Vice -Chair Frederick Hogan - 5:40 p.m. Margie McNutt - 5:40 p.m. Louanne Service Derrick Quinney All Commissioners were in attendance. GUESTS AND STAFF: Roberta Albert, Citizen Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Jack Roberts, Law Department Sandy Allen, City Council Howard Jones, City Council Tony Benavides, City Council APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA: COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER QUINNEY AND CARRIED. INTRODUCTION - MR. QUINNEY: Newly appointed Commissioner Quinney was introduced and congratulated on his appointment and confirmation to serve on the Commission. BUSINESS SESSION: INTERVIEWS INTERVIEW OF COUNCILMEMBER HOWARD JONES Glicksman: ... Councilmember Jones has appeared and I as the Chair welcome you on behalf of all the Commissioners and, like your predecessors, we have invited you to share your views on the roll of a Councilmember, the extent of you work, compensation issues that affect you and just give us an opportunity from your eyes and then there will be some questions, I am certain, from the Commissioners. Jones: Thank you. I know I appeared here two years ago and I think some of you folks remember that. I would probably like to add to the comments I made then that as you realize the Council is an independent legislative body with the City of Lansing. We are elected by the votes, we are not appointed by anyone. (McNutt comes in.) Glicksman: ... The agenda listed Councilmember Rick Lilly as first, being here at 5:30 p.m. but he communicated to our secretary that he would not be available and so we have taken out of order, Councilmember Howard Jones and he is just beginning to remind of, or refresh our memories of the last time he appeared. Jones: Thank you. I was indicating to the members that were here that the Council is an independent legislative body of the City of Lansing, elected by voters. I consider it an honor to be a member of the Council and I feel that the service that has been rendered by myself has been unselfish to this City. In terms of the compensation, as I stated two years ago, that I felt that the City Councilmembers, in this City regardless of who they are, deserve a salary of $25,000 per year plus office holder expenses. I think that the President deserves an additional $5,000 and the Vice President $2, 500. I don't think I indicated that two years ago. McNutt: The President how much? Jones: The President an additional $5,000. I say that based on my own experience having served as President last year. I think Councilmembers that have not served as President don't realize the additional time and responsibility that is involved in that office. The same is true of the Vice President because of the additional duties that you have and also the, I would say the protocol type of activities that you are expected to attend. Now as a plain Councilmember, I don't feel the same obligation to attend the protocol type activities. The ones that I do attend are usually those that involve the neighborhoods of this community, the programs that are serving young people for example in the City. But some of the other activities I don't usually go to. I try to devote my time and energy to reading and understanding the proposals that the Council has to deal with, with respect whether it's a March for Justice proposal, whether it the proposals in terms of development that developers have presented to us, or whether it is in terms of what the LEPFA Board is attempting to do with the City Market of with the changes they have already instituted in running the City Market or the Lansing Center. So I think that I have been very involved in the affairs of the City and carried out the duties as a City Councilmember. I would say on the average that the City Councilmembers spend somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 to 25 hours, some of us spend considerably more than that, and I can do that because I am not employed full-time. I am retired, I'm a retired school teacher and frankly I enjoy being a City Councilmember. I like to deal with people, I like to listen to their concerns and to implement programs that address the needs of people in this City and try to get them implemented. For example, one of the things, or there are a couple of things I will point out to you. The Project Play that has gotten a lot of publicity, putting playground equipment at elementary schools, originated in a meeting that I had with a member of the Lansing School Board, our Parks Director, the Parks Director of Ingham County, approximately two years ago. Out of the meeting grew the concept that its time the school district and the City work together and we pool our resources to come up with enough money to make a dent in this very needed activity in this City and that is a decent playgound for our kids. We now have either completed or are in the process of being completed, 50 of these Project Play deals. Hopefully in the next year or two we can complete the additional 12 that will give us a playground in every park, with exception of those that are either too small and they can't accommodate them, or every elementary public school. So I think that is quite an accomplishment. We have spend approximately $1.75 million on this project. So, that is, I think, a credit to the Council in supporting this, and the Mayor. We've also worked very closely with GLAHA, some of you people know, the domed ice rink on South Washington, to where that is now, it's here folks. You can skate in it if you want to. It's a very nice facility. It's a combination of GL AHA and the City working together to make this arena possible. I think in about three years, the City will own that outright and then we will be a able to charge GLAHA or anyone else that wants to use it for practice of a hockey team. We'll rent, but at the present time it is on a reduced rate. But I think this is a credit to some of us on the Council, the push for this. Presently, I am working with the Lansing School District to utilize their horticulture and landscaping program, which is out at Harry Hill, so you are familiar with some of these programs. And working with this program to help us landscape the City Market and actually use this as the hands on experience with these young people, get them involved in things like this. Hogan: Do you believe that the Council job is more than a part job? Jones: I would say that it is at least a half time job. I am one that feels that if you tend to your business that probably it would be considered a half to Sixty Percent. I know some people could spend full time at it. I probably would have considered it full time as President. That is why I would recommend that the President get a $5, 000 kicker, because there is a lot more that you have to do to make sure that the committees are doing their job. I think that is one thing that this Council has been doing the last two or three years and that is to really make the committees responsible for doing their job. Some of you folks have watched the Public Safety Committee and the hearings they have held with the March for Justice recommendations. I think those have been very well run by Councilmember Allen and the other members of the Committee. I think generally, the people that are involved in this are quite pleased with having this opportunity to present these recommendations in this manner. AquiRna: You have a $2,000 expense account. You are saying want the office holders expense fund in addition to the expense account. You want to maintain both and go back to what you have? 1 Jones: The reason for that is that often times the only time you can meet with citizen groups or other folks that work downtown here is doing the noon hour and frequently you are expected to at least pay your own lunch. I do not make it a practice of receiving a free lunch from people that I might consider to be lobbyists and I tell them when I go to eat with them. I pay for my own. To me, I think that is what a Council person has to do - to keep themselves separate. If you are talking about meeting with a neighborhood group or LEPFA people, I don't see anything wrong with me picking up the tab. But often times the only time that you can get all of these folks together is noon. And also, I think it gives you the opportunity to encourage some of these neighborhood groups that may be strapped for funds to utilize your office holder account for this purpose. I think if you check my record I think you will find that Eighty percent of my contribution has been to neighborhood groups and other types of non profit groups that are doing something to benefit people in this City as opposed for my own well being. Glicksman: Councilman Jones, can you comment, if you wish, or do not wish, the differences between a ward Council person and a Council person at large. Jones: The biggest difference is that you tend to get more of the citizen complaints directed to the Ward Council person. This is not always the case. I know I have had people that have contacted me directly and when they do I refer them to the ward Councilmember. That is one area that would be somewhat different. On the other hand what you do tend to do is at large Council person is you tend to get invited to a lot of community wide concerned groups that perhaps a ward Council person does not get invited to. [He then referenced the Silverstone Pilot project proposed on M.L.K. Boulevard] r) guinney: Being . the concerned citizen of this community as you are, prior to becoming a Councilmember how much time did you put into City affairs and community services? Jones: When my kids got old enough and I wasn't devoted enough time for them, by the way that is why I didn't get involved in this sooner, because my first responsibility is my kids. guinney: Well, no one in here can argue that. Jones: But some people do, you know that as well as I do. guinney: I can't image it. Jones: Well. I was elected when we had the N.D.A. Program (Neighborhood Development Program) . We had four areas. I was elected the first year that we had that in 1984. It was called the Citizens District Council. The purpose of that group was to recommend to the Council the kinds of activities and changes that needed to be made. C.D.C. #4 was the only district council that required, or asked for an audit of our funds. People couldn't believe that in the Planning Department. We wanted to know. We were spending Two Million Dollars and we wanted to know just how this money was being spent and if it was being spent for what we had indicated. I think it is a credit to the neighbors in that area that the Council could pretty much accepted Ninety five percent of our recommendations on how this money should be spent. They did not spent money in the peripheral area to pave roads. We spent the money getting rid of congested housing and fixing the housing that needed to be renovated and that program really started our neighborhood all the way back. Following that I was elected to be the President of the Southside Neighborhood Organization and served in that capacity for three years and I am a great believer in not perpetuating leadership and I told them that I would not serve in this office again. I have been a very active neighborhood person. Quinney: Can you break that down to hours per week? Can you do that? Jones: Prior to being on the Council? I would say probably ten hours per week doing those activities starting in 1978, plus going down to Moores Park School and supervising evening basketball when I was the only adult that would do this. Kids appreciate this kind of stuff. You know that. We also pressed the school district to make that gym available. Sometimes you've got to do that. Aquilina: You are essentially requesting and $11, 000 dollar raise if you compare member to member. Would you be opposed to breaking it out between the two years, or you are requesting immediately or? Jones: Well, I know how these things happen. You are always looking at something that is happening or you are going to negotiate and maybe we can compromise on this. But if you never state what you think the goal should be then, then people are going to say, well we can slide this back. That is why I maintain that you don't need a $50, 000 salary. You only need a $30,0000 salary. I think what this also permits, is it permits the citizens to say, well hey, this person is not only interested in the money of this position but is also interested in serving the citizens of this City. I think that is really what is wrong with our Legislature. There are too many people trying to line their pockets with money and they really don't care much about the City of Lansing. Glicksman: Permit me to ask this question and if you feel uncomfortable about just say so. Often times you hear that people say that if the salary got high enough, you would be W attracting people who would only be interested in the salary. That is a take off from what you just eluded to. But my interest if that were the case in all probability many of these people that would be looking at a salary as the motivating factor to attain the job wouldn't know how to get into that job at all. How much does it cost to run for a position what you are paid right now, if there were no adjustment. If I could be so bold as to ask on the record, I would guess that it is far more costly to run for a job than it is to get compensation. Jones: The time that I ran, it cost about $20,000 for my campaign for the at large Council spot. I know the Mayor's was probably over a $100, 0.00. So it is expensive. There is no question about that. Glicksman: What is it four years? Jones: Four years. So at four years let's say you recover approximately one and half times what you spend during your campaign. You know, I don't like the fact that you have to spend this much money to campaign and I probably will not spend that much if I decide to run again. Glicksman: Just don't have anybody making telephone calls Howard, from your office. Jones: Yeah right. I know the effective ways to reach people. You don't have to put ads in the State Journal and on television. INTERVIEW OF COUNCILWOMAN SANDY ALLEN: Allen: I want to apologize (speaking, to Commissioner Quinney) to you. I think that you were attached unfairly in the Committee of the Whole the other day. I think that happened through my frustration. I hope that you will forgive.... A Hogan: Now it is his turn to ask the questions. Allen: I would also like to apologize to this group. It was my understanding that this meeting was Thursday, and I had it on my calendar. Sorry about that as well. G 1 i c k s m an : Why don't you start off by giving your comments on what you think the position is and then we will chime in with some questions. Allen: I have been curious about what you know about what it is a Councilmember does. I find out that so many people in the public think that the Council meeting on Monday night is the Councilmember's job. [She then referenced a discussion she had with her neighbor regarding the Councilmembers job responsibilities and duties] One of the things that we do is we make decisions that affect 130,000 people and that is a tremendous responsibility. The budget meetings go on hour after hour and this is something we have to study. I d not know what the Council position has been in the past but I think it has dramatically over the years. Most Councilmembers have to work to supplement their in and there are just not enough hours in the day and the night to do the job that you feel you should be doing. If you have any special projects, that takes even more time. [She then referenced her visual exhibits of boxes of documents regarding the Public Safety Committee March for Justice Recommendations, Student Government day, etc.] This is the material that we have accumulated, research, to look through and because these recommendations are so important and our grasp and understanding of what is being asked for us to do is so important we have to study this. We have to know this and we can't take time from our Public Safety Committee during the week. We have to give this extra time. Special time. So we meet on Saturdays. Another project of mine 1n was Student Government Day. I had all of the student government classes from the three high schools. There was one school per day and they spent the whole day here. This takes months of work and preparation for it. We deal with the teachers, designing the brochure and information. Designing surveys for them. This box is all student government day which I hope to make an annual, traditional kind of thing. I am Chairman of Public ' Safety and we meet each week and additionally on Saturdays. I serve on Planning and Development Committee. I am an ex officio member of the Planning Board. I serve on the Tri County Office on Aging. I serve on the River -walk Board of Directors and this is just to name a few and social functions that we are expected to attend. There are neighborhood - ward Councilmembers have to deal with constituent kind of work. I have had as many as twenty telephone calls per day. I sometimes receive phone calls at 10:30, 11:00 and 12:00 at night, as well as weekends. You are on call all of the time. You have to be responsive to your constituents. No only do you have to be but you want to be. That is why we are here and I think the frustration of being a Councilmember is being required to work in addition to trying to do the job that you want to do for the people you are representing and the frustration sometimes when you can't return phone calls and the time it takes that they expect you to return it. This is a part time job and if you don't respond almost immediately they are very unhappy and very frankly, I would be too. When they come to you it is the last resort. They want action. I understand that one Councilmember indicated that they spent 15 hours on their Council work. I only say that any Councilmember who spends 15 hours a week is not doing their job. This particular Councilmember has indicated that they would not seek another term. I don't know if this Councilmember indicated that to you or not. I love the job. I will continue to run and do the work and I indicated in the paper. I wrote a point of view column in the paper about it. What we are going to be doing and this will be another project is to have the Channel 28 staff person shadow a Council person for a day. So she would start in the morning. I must 11 spend at least three hours a day just on phone calls. When you return a phone call to a constituent. You have to contact a department head. You have to make another contact as a result of that phone call and then you have to make sure that, that job has been done. You either go out and make sure it has been done or you call to make sure it has been done and then you have to call the constituent back to make sure that they are satisfied. It is called quality service and we want to give that too. I love what I do but there are nights when I go home and my stomach is churning and you wake up at night wondering if you had done the right thing. I brought you a small sample of the couple of project - these are just a couple of projects. These are not the mainstream. As you wall know we worked on the CSO project. My children and pitched in and bought me a computer so I could do more work at home. I know you people have a difficult job and I know that you have more of an understanding that what the general public has as to what we do. McNutt: Did you say that some Councilmembers take this job to supplement their income? Allen: No I would never say that. I said most of us must work to supplement our income.... You do it because you love it. Albert: In actual hours how many hours do you think it takes you? What is sufficient? Allen: Forty hours easily and that is with working three days per week in another position. Albert: What do you think it is worth in dollars? If it is a forty hour a week job. What is that worth in dollars in your mind? Allen: $25,000. 1? guinney: Were you aware of all of the responsibilities of a Council person prior to running for the position? Allen: I thought I was. I don't think anyone can every be aware, until they are actually here and then it depends upon the individual and the sense of responsibility that he feels for the job. I don't think there is any way of ever being fully prepared. Quinney: Obviously you have a compassion for the City and you want to see things move in a positive direction. How much time did you put in as a public citizens, in city affairs, as a community service, prior to you becoming a Councilmember? Allen: I would say approximately 10 hours per week. I did a lot of volunteer work. McNutt: When you say $25,000 is that $25,000 for each Councilmember? Is that including the President and the Vice - President? Allen: Not having served as President or Vice -President I can't speak for them, but as a Councilmember. I do think the Ward Councilmember.s have more responsibility than those At Large and probably the strange point of that, is that when they campaign they have to campaign in the entire City and we campaign in our words and they have to spend much more money and have to be more involved in their campaign. McNutt: Do you think the President should make $5,000 more than the Councilmembers and the Vice -President should make the $2, 500 more? Allen: From what I view from the leadership. I would think that, although the Vice -President is not as visible, I guess I would think they would probably make the same -- I think the Vice -President is responsible for a lot of work that the public doesn't see. More than a Councilperson yes. Hogan: You work part time besides being a Councilmember? Allen: Three days per week. Hogan: Did you work full time prior to becoming a Councilmember? Allen: When I first campaigned, I worked full time as an Executive Secretary for Michigan National Bank. Hogan: You went to part time because the job was too demanding? Allen: What happened, when I indicated to Michigan National that I thought I wanted to run, they were very encouraging and very supportive and then after I got the job, then it was something else. They weren't quite so supportive. Then Michigan National went through a merging process and my whole department was eliminated and at that point I was eligible to retire, fortunately. So I took the retirement and then to supplement my income I work three days a week as receptionist. Service: We have heard from you and others about the differences in the work load of a ward Councilperson versus a Councilperson at large. What is your opinion on the salary? Do you thin there should be a differential in salary for those two types of positions? Allen: Well, No really, because many times the at large people will take on the larger projects such as the stormwater, so it balances out. While they take on the larger projects we have constituent work. I think it kind of balances. Aquilina: You said you work about 40 hours per week on this? Allen: Yes and I can work many, many more. Aquilina: Do you feel that all of those hours should be paid or that a number of them, because you are in a public office, are volunteer? Alen: Well, I think a person should be paid for the job that they do. I do a lot of things, for example, Riverwalk Board. I attend a lot of social functions that I would not necessarily have to go but I feel that it is the responsibility of a Councilperson to go. It is all part of the job. Aquilina: It is also a part of re-election though, isn't it? If you didn't do those things. Allen: As part of being a Ward Councilperson I have to attend a lot of functions that have nothing to do with my ward and that my ward probably doesn't know what I do. McNutt: The Planning Board meets quite few times per month plus they do other activities that they are called on to do. Do you think that those volunteers should be paid? The citizens that serve on the Planning Board because I know they put in a lot of hours. Allen: Yes they do. I can't speak for them. I would prefer not to. quinney: Other Councilmembers we have interviewed have indicated that the position can be declared seasonal .... is that the case pretty much with this? I mean the March for Justice? 11� Allen: No. Different seasons bring different problems. Quinney: For instance, we all know that the March for Justice is going to require a lot of your time. Not all the time do we have issues of that magnitude are there before you that you have to address so with that would you say that the forty hours per week have been attributed to this, or is that constant when there isn't a hot item? Allen: No. That is constant. As a matter of fact there has been one after another and when one is resolved then another crops up. There is always a hot item on the table. But even then, doing constituent work has taken forty hours per week easily with no problem at all and more. I know this is a tough job that you guys have. I realize that. One thing I guess I would ask that if you have a problem in raising the salary, that perhaps you could look at a per diem. Regardless of what you do I will continue to run and continue to serve.. but it would make it so much easier if I had more time. Glicksman: Well, that is true in every position. I mean whether it be a Teacher, Lawyer, Engineer, if you had more time, but we can not control the clock. Allen: But that is true but those people are paid appropriately as opposed to an Eight to Five job where you go in the morning and at 5 o'clock you leave and you leave the job until you get back the next morning. For those of you who don't do that I am sure that your salary is much more than $14, 000 per year. McNutt: But isn't that part time? Allen: Yes. That is the troublesome part. McNutt: It is a part time position. 14� Allen: Yes. According to the Charter but when the Charter was written, I don't think the nature of a Councilperson's responsibilities were what they are now. Glicksman: I would intend to agree but we are struggling because we are a creature, in a legal sense, of the Charter to the extent that some of us as voters may want to express a change, our decision can not reflect as much as many individuals would want that we are going to bestow onto a part time job the notion that it is a full time job. I don't think that is within our Commission's jurisdiction. I think it is the voter's to make that but I understand the conflict. A good public servant does more than the minimum but a good lawyer does more than the minimum and a good teacher does a lot more than the minimum and those that do not and I think their constituency, whether it be client, school child, or client or us, since we are your clients sort of, doesn't get the best that we could expect. Allen: But the situation with the school teacher is that she may do a good or a poor job but she has tenure. Glicksman: Not everybody and it doesn't come in until five years. I am a teacher. I am a Lawyer. I have done all of that and tenure only really relates to protecting against conveying of an idea that is unpopular. It has not protection if there is going to be a downturn in the school system and they have to make decisions based upon economic reasons. Tenure laws are silent in this respect. You have, you come back to the voter. Your merit review is did I do a good enough job to let the voters elect me back. Each of us have a different perspective. My comments on all of this is not just to listen to myself talk, because it is boring, my view is that if we need to change the Charter then I think that as citizens of this City we ought to be looking at. 17 Allen: You could go in that direction of changing the Charter but you could also simply increase the salary as a part time position and I think that if the public has a problem with that as you say, if they feel that their Councilperson is not doing the job that they have been paid to do, I think most people who have any knowledge of what a Councilperson does agrees that $14,000 is not sufficient. They have the opportunity to get rid of you. Aquilina: How many of you constituents have you told that you wanted a $25,000 raise and do you think they would support that? Allen: Yes. I think they would. How many I have told? I think I have made my position clear. Aquilina: What was their response? Allen: You earn it. I constantly have people say to me you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. I mean hear that daily. The grief that we take on Monday nights. That is just a small part. That is a very small part. Hogan: So you obviously think that this job should be full time? Allen: I think, I am not going to equate salary with full or part time. That is not my. Hogan: I am not even talking about salary, but you think that it should be - you said that being a Councilmember was a full time job. Allen: To do the job adequately yes. I think the people are being short change when you have a Councilmember who must earn a salary in addition to work what they make as a Councilperson. Yes. Aquilina: Then you want a full time salary to match that full time job? Allen: Well, if you were talking about a salary for a full time job, I would not say $20,000 to $25,000. Hogan: What would you say? Allen: $40, 000. I hope I haven't shocked you? Aquilina: No we have heard it all. Glicksman: This is not a commission to be shocked. We are citizens who are sitting around trying to do the best that they can do and our salaries are cookies. Allen: At the time when I choose to retire from this position, or am not re-elected, believe me I will be serving on one of these committees or more. Glicksman: I think it is an honorable thing to serve the public. I am not so sure that just because we serve the public that we ought to do without recognition for our efforts. Allen: I agree. Glicksman: Any further comments? Questions? Observations? Speeches? McNutt: I just want to tell you why I mentioned the Planning Commission. I use to be on the Planning Board and I resigned because it took too much of my time. 10 Allen: ... I will go out to locations... McNutt: I spent more time there than I ... Allen: When people explain something on the phone its one thing but then when you go out and see it then you get a better perspective of what they are talking about and I think it is very important to do. Glicksman: On behalf of the Commissioners I want to thank you very much for spending some time with us and providing us with some answers and observations. Allen: Well, thank you. INTERVIEW OF COUNCILMEMBER TONY BENAVIDES Glickman: Welcome again on behalf of the Commissioners, Councilmember Benavides, I want to welcome you to our deliberative process. Why don't you share with us your views and roll as a Councilperson, full-time, part-time, benefits that think Council persons are deserving of and be prepared to answer some of our questions that we may have. Benavides: Sure. First of all I want to thank you for excusing me last week. I did have a death in the family and I was not able to be here. Also, I want to thank you in advance for taking the appointment from the Mayor and taking all the harassment that has been going on. I know that you don't need it and I appreciate you taking the time, because, this is a no - paying job, and I appreciate it very much, what you do and I believe in the Compensation Commission and I served on it years ago, myself and I Chaired it so I know that it is something that should remain as is. ?n Now, well, I am the oldest in the bunch. I am the only survivor as you know. So, I have been here through good times and bad times and I think that we really have a good City and we have a lot of commitment from the Councilmembers. I think, in terms of, it is not really a full-time position. I don't think that we are at that point where we can really, unless you reduce the number of Councilmembers let's say to maybe five. As it is right now I think that the way that it is composed on the four wards, I think is very appropriate because the protocols are given that the Council, that the Ward Councilmember is the working horse, really, for the City. We take, and I am speaking as a Ward Councilmember, that we take, I think that all the Ward Councilmembers take their job seriously because they are the first ones that receive the calls on the constituents and they feel `you are my Councilmember, you are the one that I voted for.' So I think we are the working horses, and we take it a lot more seriously where, I am not saying anything about my colleagues at -large, but you know, at -large, you have 185,000 people or 180,000 people voting out there. I have about 24-25, 000 registered voters, so what happens is that you have a situation where a call comes in and the Councilmember At -Large would, I would say the majority of the time, would probable take it and refer to the local Councilmember to take care of it. I'll give you an example, this morning we spent a half a day, Councilmember Jones and I, on a project out there on south Martin Luther King area, the corner of Hughes Road and Martin Luther King. A proposal for some affordable, low-income houses, the entire block from Holmes Road all the way to Jolly. But anyway, so then you can take them to support you and they are very gracious about that. But getting, back, the pay, I think we all took the position that this was not your primary job. That you do have other jobs. Unfortunately some of us have better bosses than others. I happen to have a wonderful boss, very flexible. I am quite free to do whatever I have to do, of course you never forget where your bread is being buttered. Then there are others that feel that they do not have that flexibility so therefore makes it a hardship for 1?1 them. In my case, I am not, I think the pay and the benefits are fine. I don't have any problems with it at all. We all knew that this was a j ob that was not something that you were going to live on. I question sometimes the fact that just because the pay is not at whatever level that you are going to get less people because there are some real, real strong people out there that are really committed to the work and they are willing to do it for less. Again, the hours differ. It depends on the issues and what it is. With me, as a matter of fact I was coming from another meeting at 4:00, it was from 4:00 to 5:30 for the Tri-County Seniors. We all take a couple of Committee meetings and if you take two or three hours a piece, that's six hours, and then you take whatever it takes on Monday nights. So you take another four hours, that's ten hours, and then you have another four of reading, that is 14, and then you have your outside work. It averages between 20 and 25. But there is no question there is, when you look at 1996, 25 major votes that you took and how much time it took to get them, then you begin to put the hours together. We have not had easy votes, especially last year, when we had the Civil Rights and GM and South Lansing Community Center, we had the North Police Precinct. All of them are very violative and controversial and everybody wants to be number one, nobody wants to be number two or three. So what happens when you look at what were the major votes for the year, and you have 25 or so votes in there and then you look an how much time each one of the Councilmembers put into it. I spent a lot of time on the phone, we all have assignments outside of the Council, Tri-County Regional Planning, Tri-County Office on Aging, Sister City Commission, and then the Police and Fire Retirement, which got me in trouble. So there is a lot of other outside. . . and then you have a lot of invitations and things that you have to go and represent the City for. Hogan: What do you think about the support staff? Could you have more support staff? Do you think that would make your job a little easier? You've been a Councilmember for. . Benavides: Fifteen years. Hogan: Since you've been here so long, does that make your job a little easier than some of the people that are just coming on? Benavides: Oh, absolutely. Regardless of how we think about the people in the past, every time that you lose someone like let's say, Lucile Belen, or even Alfreda, for 12 years, regardless what we think of them they take with them a wealth of information that really, it makes it so much easier for you to work with, because they know, you start talking about a street or about an ordinance or about something that took place and you say, `oh yeah, 1985, I was there' you know they remember all the nails that were on that wall and all of that stuff. It makes it a lot easier. With me, there is, out of the eight of us I can tell you that, let's say Beal, Jones, Leeman, and Lilly, those all spend a lot of time probably here. I think that the ones that spend less time in City Hall it would be myself, and now Bauer and Paul Novak. Sandy maybe is here since she doesn't have a full-time job. These four people are consistently here and probably they need a lot of staff support. I have 55 people that work for me and I have a dollar budget that I can squeeze things around and my schedule is flexible so that I can do the things that I want to do so I don't bother them as much as they do. So I don't depend on them that much, but when I do, I want them to respond right away. I think that we are running a skeleton staff, we really do, we really don't go out and get temporaries that much. I think that, in certain areas, when they go on vacation, like for example you take Ron, as an example, he is one of the oldest next Fran in here so any time they are gone that puts the department on hold for a lot ?11 of things. A perfect example came up Saturday, we also meet on Saturdays for budget, and right now we are meeting with Reverend Stone on the March for Justice and the thing came up, there is so much paperwork that has to be gathered before the meetings to make sure they are in order and we do need additional staff during that time. But the one that knows where most of the stuff is Ron and he was on vacation, so it does present a problem to us sometimes. Albert: I don't understand the answer to his question, do you feel is there enough support staff or do you feel that you need more? Benavides: Personally, I think we have enough support staff. Remember they are also in competition with the Mayor's Office. You know, because what happens is they sometimes, they say we are going to cut 10 percent and so you better cut 10 percent, you know, playing the game here. But we have a bunch of good staff. Glicksman: Any other questions? Aquilina: I wanted to thank you for your letter last week. I read it and I thought, well, Tony is at a family function and then I thought it was something fun, and then you said funeral, and I wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. We've heard, you are really at the tail end of the testimony we have had, we've had some letters and maybe we'll get some more. We have heard anywhere from zero to 200 percent raise. How would you explain, I understand that you are not advocating a raise, but how would you explain a raise if you questioned something beyond (inaudible) Benavides: Absolutely, because you have to remember some of the background of these folks, where they are coming from. When we deal with numbers ever day, we know what the ?a cost of living is and what the commodities are and when we get directions from all the budgets and proposals . . . these people that we are representing, they do the same thing and they would have a hard time, if they are getting zero increase or up to five and here you give 15 and 20. But I think that you have to look at, you know, those four who are here all the time and they feel it is justified. quinney: How much of your time would you consider community service? In terms of prior to taking on a position as a Councilmember, and I know you have been active in the community for a long, long, time? Benavides: I spend a lot of time on doing things that are actual social stuff, like I love to go to the Polish Hall and eat and dance to their music because it kind of calms the mind. I think that part of the, what makes it a success is being able to feel comfortable situation and communities and we do make an effort to mix and commingle into the other communities. We spend a lot of time whether it is in church, picnics., outdoor type of activities, concerts, things like that. I would say 10 hours a week, because every weekend there is something going on. Commissioner McNutt exits due to a prior commitment. COMMISIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE COMMISSION POLICY BE RE -AFFIRMED THAT THE MAYOR BE THE HIGHEST SALARIED POSITION WITHIN CITY GOVERNMENT. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER QUINNEY AND CARRIED. COMMISIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT. THE MEETING SCHEDULE BE CHANGED -- THE MEETING ON MARCH 20, BE ?S CHANGED TO MARCH 19, AT 5:30 P.M. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER SERVICE AND CARRIED. THE MEETING ADJOURNED BY A MOTION AT APPROXIMATELY 6:58 P.M. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot and Tina M. Gallante Recording Secretaries Approved on: 311 cfl q 7 ,JL . ?rl CITY OF LANSING ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION MINUTES ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION WEDNESDAY, MARCH 17, 1997 - 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR CONFERENCE ROOM 124 WEST MICHIGAN AVENUE LANSING, MICHIGAN CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:45 P.M. ROLL CALL: Commissioners Present: Elliot Glicksman, Chair Rosemarie Aquilina, Vice -Chair Frederick Hogan Margie McNutt Louanne Service Derrick Quinney All Commissioners were in attendance. ` CD _ GUESTS AND STAFF: -, c C.J Roberta Albert, Citizen Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Jack Roberts, Law Department APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA: COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT AND CARRIED. GENERAL DISCUSSION: The Commissioners discussed several options pertaining to the salaries and compensation for the Elected Officials. COMMISSIONER QUINNEY MOVED TO TIE ALL OF THE PERCENTAGE INCREASES OF THE ELECTED OFFICERS TOGETHER ACROSS THE BOARD. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA SECONDED THE MOTION. THIS MOTION WAS AMENDED BY COMMISSIONER QUINNEY THAT THE CITY CLERK BE EXEMPTED FROM THIS TIE BAR, AND BE DEALT WITH SEPARATELY. Commissioner Glicksman indicated that he did not support the motion based primarily upon the lack of due process -- to exempt one elected official from this policy would not be fair to the Elected Official who is exempted. Commissioner Hogan indicated that he would not support the motion based on the fact that he wanted to deal with the salaries and compensation of each elected official, City Council, Mayor, and City Clerk positions. Commissioner McNutt indicated that she was committed to giving the City Council a raise this year and recommended that the consideration of Councilmember salaries be addressed as a separate issue. THE QUESTION WAS CALLED. THE VOTE ON THE MOTION WAS AS FOLLOWS: YEAS: QUINNEY, AQUILINA NAYS: GLICKSMAN, HOGAN, SERVICE, MCNUTT THE MOTION FAILED 2 YEAS AND 4 NAYS. COMMISSIONER QUINNEY MOVED THAT THIS MATTER BE TABLED. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES: COMMISSIONER HOGAN MOVED AND COMMISSIONER AQUILINA SUPPORTED THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MARCH 5, 1997, MINUTES. THE MOTION CARRIED. ADJOURNMENT: By a motion, the meeting was adjourned at 6:55 p.m. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission on ail `i l G i CITY OF LANSING ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION MINUTES ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION WEDNESDAY, MARCH 19, 1997 - 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR CONFERENCE ROOM r- 124 WEST MICHIGAN AVENUE LANSING, MICHIGAN=� 'L. CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:46 p.m. ROLL CALL: Commissioners Present: Elliot Glicksman, Chair Rosemarie Aquilina, Vice -Chair Roberta Albert Frederick Hogan Margie McNutt Louanne Service Derrick Quinney All Commissioners were in attendance. GUESTS AND STAFF: Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Jack Roberts, Law Department Jack Jordan, Law Department Ellen Beal, Councilmember APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA: COMMISSIONER SERVICE MOVED THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER AQUILINA AND CARRIED. GENERAL DISCUSSION -- REVIEW OF DRAFT PROPOSAL: Several options were reviewed by the Commission. Each Commissioner expressed their views as to what the appropriate increase should be, if any, for Councilmembers, Mayor, and City Clerk positions. Several issues were discussed such as labor increases, benefits, expense accounts, part time and full time elected positions. The following actions were taken by the Commission. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE DIFFERENTIAL IN WAGES FOR COUNCILMEMBER POSITIONS PREVAIL. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER QUINNEY AND CARRIED. ($1, 500 DIFFERENTIAL FOR COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND $750.00 FOR COUNCIL VICE-PRESIDENT). COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE MOTION THAT WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER QUINNEY, WHICH WAS NOT SUPPORTED, BE AMENDED TO REFLECT THAT ANY ADJUSTMENT TO THE CITY CLERK'S SALARY BE MADE WITHIN THE SECOND YEAR. THE MOTION CARRIED. COMMISSIONER MCNUTT MOVED THAT THE SALARY FOR THE CITY CLERK POSITION INCREASE BY 3.4% TO TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1, 1998. COMMISSIONER SERVICE SUPPORTED THE MOTION. (APPROXIMATELY $58,000 TO $60,000) A ROLL CALL VOTE WAS REQUESTED: YEAS NAYS McNutt Quinney Service Albert Glicksman Hogan Aquilina THE MOTION FAILED 3 YEAS AND 4 NAYS. General discussion continued. MEMBER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE CITY CLERK POSITION SALARY BE INCREASED 1.7% IN THE SECOND YEAR, JANUARY OF 1998 = TO $59,000 PER YEAR. COMMISSIONER ALBERT SUPPORTED THE MOTION. COMMISSIONER QUINNEY CALLED THE QUESTION. THE MOTION CARRIED. 6-1 (McNutt) COMMISSIONER HOGAN MOVED THAT THE MAYOR'S SALARY BE INCREASED APPROXIMATELY 3.5% JULY 1,1997, ($87,975) AND JANUARY 1, 1998 (91,054). THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER ALBERT AND CARRIED 6-1 (McNutt). COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT CITY COUNCILMEMBERS RECEIVE A 3.5% SALARY INCREASE IN 1997 AND A 3.5% INCREASE IN 1998, WITH THE APPROPRIATE DIFFERENTIALS BETWEEN SALARIES OF THE PRESIDENT, VICE-PRESIDENT AND COUNCILMEMBER POSITIONS: COUNCILMEMBER -- $14,490; COUNCIL VICE-PRESIDENT -- $15,266; AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT -- $16,403 JULY OF 1997. COUNCILMEMBER -- $14,997; COUNCIL -VICE-PRESIDENT -- $15,800; AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT -- $15, 604 JANUARY 1, 1998. COMMISSIONER QUINNEY CALLED THE QUESTION. THE MOTION FAILED. 3 YEAS -- ALBERT, QUINNEY AND AQUILINA. 4 NAYS -- MCNUTT; HOGAN, GLICKSMAN, AND SERVICE. COMMISSIONER HOGAN MOVED THE COUNCILMEMBERS RECEIVE A SALARY INCREASE OF APPROXIMATELY 8.5% OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS -- JULY 1, 1997 AND JANUARY 1, 1998. COUNCILMEMBER -- $14, 595; COUNCIL VICE-PRESIDENT -- $15, 345; AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT -- $16,095 IN 1997. COUNCILMEMBER -- $15,215; COUNCIL VICE-PRESIDENT -- $15,965; COUNCIL PRESIDENT -- $16, 715 JANUARY 1, 1998. COMMISSIONER ALBERT SUPPORTED THE MOTION FAILED. 2 YEAS -- HOGAN, ALBERT. 5 NAYS -- GLICKSMAN, MCNUTT, SERVICE, ALBERT, QUINNEY. COMMISSIONER SERVICE MOVED, AND COMMISSIONER GLICKSMAN SUPPORTED APPROVAL OF THE FOLLOWING SALARIES FOR COUNCILMEMBERS. COUNCILMEMBER -- $15,000; COUNCIL VICE- PRESIDENT -- $15, 750; AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT $16, 500 TO BE EFFECTIVE IN 1997 AND THAT THIS SALARY BE MAINTAINED THROUGH 1998. COMMISSIONER ALBERT CALLED THE QUESTION. THE MOTION CARRIED 5 YEAS -- AQUILINA, ALBERT, GLICKSMAN, SERVICE, QUINNEY AND 2 NAYS -- HOGAN, MCNUTT. Commissioner McNutt explained her nay vote and wanted the record to reflect the reason she did not support the above -referenced motion was because in her view, the Councilmembers should receive an increase to reach the $16, 000 salary range level for the Councilmember position and that the Council Vice -President and President receive $16, 750 and $17, 500 respectfully, the first year. She indicated that she really could not compromise on her position. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES: COMMISSIONER ALBERT MOVED THAT A DRAFT COPY OF THE MINUTES OF THIS MEETING BE SENT TO EACH COMMISSIONER. THE COMMISSIONERS WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE DOCUMENT WITHIN A TWO DAY TIME PERIOD. AFTER THAT PERIOD OF TIME, THE MINUTES WILL BE FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK. ADJOURNMENT: By a motion, the meeting was adjourned at 7:12 p.m. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission Chair ..................................................... ..................................................... ..................................................... BY THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF LAN SING WHEREAS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY CHARTER AND CHAPTER 280 OF THE CITY CODE, THE ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION MET TO REVIEW THE SALARIES OF THE MAYOR, CITY CLERK, AND COUNCILMEMBERS, FILING ITS DETERMINATION WITH THE CITY CLERK ON FRIDAY, MARCH 2 1, 1 997; AND WHEREAS, THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE REVIEWED THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE COMMISSIONS ON SALARY INCREASES FOR CITY ELECTED OFFICIALS; AND WHEREAS, IT IS THE CITY COUNCILS OPTION TO REJECT ALL OR PART OF THE COMMISSIONS RECOMMENDATIONS BY RESOLUTION ADOPTED BY TWO-THIRDS OF THE COUNCILMEMBERS; AND WHEREAS, ANALYSIS OF THE CITIES CURRENT AND PROJECTED FINANCIAL CONDITION MAKES IT IMPERATIVE THAT STEPS BE TAKEN TO CONTROL THE EXPENSES OF OPERATING THIS GOVERNMENT; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THE LANSING CITY COUNCIL HEREBY REJECTS THE ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSIONS SALARY DETERMINATIONS FOR THE MAYOR, CITY CLERK, AND COUNCILMEMBERS AND, THEREFORE, CONTINUE THE CURRENT EXISTING SALARIES OF ALL THE ELECTED OFFICIALS AS PROVIDED IN SECTION 260. 10 OF THE LANSING CODE. BY COUNCILMEMBER LEEMAN CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY