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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995 EOCC MinutesELECTED 2/28/95 OFFICERS COMPENSA TION MINUTES ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION Monday, February 20, 1995 - 5:30 P.M. Tenth Floor Conference Room Lansing City Hall CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:32 p.m. ROLL CALL: Todd A. Derby Margie R. McNutt Louanne Service Commissioners Absent: Elliot B. Glicksman Dr. Frederick Hogan Note for the Record. Mr. Glicksman and Dr. Hogan did contact Ms. Knot to confirm their attendance. Two vacancies exist on the Board - Awaiting appointment by the Mayor and Confirmation of individuals by City Council. APPOINTMENT OF A CHAIRPERSON:, Commissioner Derby moved that Commissioner Service serve as the Chairperson for these deliberations. The motion was supported by Commissioner McNutt and carried 3-0. GENERAL DISCUSSION:. Printed on Recycled Paper Membership Concerns: The Commissioners expressed their concern regarding the fact that the Commission has been conducting business with minimum membership. The Commissioners directed that Chairperson Service send a letter to the Mayor asking that new Commissioners be appointed to fill the vacancies and also advise him that the Board is concerned about Commissioners not attending meetings on a regular basis. The Commission recommends that the Mayor communicate with Commissioner Glicksman and Commissioner Hogan to find out whether they can honor their commitment to serve on the Board. If they can not attend the meetings, the Commission requests that other individuals be appointed who can commit to devoting the necessary time to participate in the EOCC sessions. Deadline Date for Recommendation to be Submitted to Council: No later than April 6, 1995. Discussion with the Administration: The Mayor, David Hollister, and the Finance Director, Robert Swanson, are to be invited to the March 13, meeting. Fringe Benefit Clarification: The Commissioners requested a written clarification from the City Attorney regarding the Charter definition of "Compensation." The Commission's charge is to review and make recommendations regarding salaries. The Commissioners requested that a sample/draft rules of procedure be submitted to them for review. NEXT MEETING DATE: Monday, March 13, 1995 at 5:30 p.m. Wednesday, March 22,1995 at 5:30 p.m. Printed on Recycled Paper PUBLIC COMMENT: Members of the Public were not in attendance. ADJOURNMENT: A motion was made by Commissioner Derby to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 3-0. Time: 6:20 p.m. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission on SIGNED_ Louanne Service, Chairperson Printed on Recycled Paper AGENDA ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION MONDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1995 5:30 P.M. TENTH FLOOR CONFERENCE ROOM LANSING CITY HALL 1. CALL TO ORDER 2. ROLL CALL 3. APPOINTMENT OF COMMISSION CHAIRPE J ON 4. GENERAL DISCUSSION 5. NEXT MEETING TIME AND AGENDA 6. PUBLIC COMIVVIENT 7. ADJOURN a i MAA rTON TO: Ron Borseff, Building Maintenance c/o Public Service Department FROM: Francesca Knot, Council Legislative Assistant DATE: FEBRUARY 28, 1995 SUBJECT: REQUEST FOR BASEMENT CARDS HAND DELIVERED The City Council Office requests seven basement entry cards which will be distributed to the Members of the Elected Officers Compensation Commission. The Commission will be meeting in City Hall for the next several weeks. When business in concluded, some time in April, the cards will be returned to you. Please deliver the cards to me prior to March 8, 1995, to allow me the opportunity to mail them to the Commissioners in time for the March 13 meeting. Thank you. fek cc: Tony Benavides, Council President Howard Jones, Vice -President l Louanne Service, Chairperson Todd A. Derby Elliot B. Glicksman Dr. Frederick Hogan Margie R. McNutt MEETING NOTICE The next two Commission meetings will take place: Monday, March 13, 1995 5:30 p.m. Tenth Floor Conference Room Lansing City Hall 124 West Michigan Avenue Wednesday, March 22, 1995 5:30 p.m. Tenth Floor Council Chambers Lansing City Hall 124 West Michigan Avenue If you have any questions concerning the above -mentioned meetings, please contact Francesca Knot of the Lansing City Council Office at 483-4177. 2/28/95 ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION TO: JAMES SMIERTKA, CITY ATTORNEY FROM: LOUANNE SERVICE, CHAIRPERSON ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION DATE: FEBRUARY 27, 1995 SUBJECT: REQUEST FOR DRAFT RULES OF PROCEDURE FOR THE ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION Per the City Ordinance requirements, each City Board and Commission must have Rules of Procedure on file with the City Clerk. The Commission plans to meet this mandate during these deliberations. Please prepare a draft copy which include the requirements of the Ordinance governing our Commission for our consideration and deliver it to Ms. Francesca Knot, our Recording Secretary. As you know the Commission meets for a very limited time; therefore, it would be appreciated if we could receive the proposed rules as soon as possible. Thank you for your attention to this matter. fek ELECTED ' OFFICERS COM TO: JAMES SMIERTKA, CITY ATTORNEY FROM: LOUANNE SERVICE, CHAIRPERSON ��- ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION DATE: FEBRUARY 27, 1995 SUBJECT: REQUEST FOR A WRITTEN OPINION HAND DELIVERED The Commission has commenced deliberations regarding the salaries of Elected Officials for 1995-96. We understand discussions have taken place regarding our role, as outlined in the Charter, relative to the definition of "Compensation." Specifically, whether it includes consideration of fringe benefits. Since the inception of the Charter, it has been the opinion of the City Attorney's Office that the Conuriission's role is to review "salaries" which excludes fringe benefits and consideration of expense accounts. At the present time, the City of Lansing Elected Officials receive the same fringe benefits as the Teamsters Local 580. Please provide us with your written opinion as to whether you concur with the previous opinions. If you do not, please clarify, in detail, the change in interpretation of the Charter. We would appreciate receiving your response to our inquiry prior to March 13, 1995. fek 2/27/95 TO: Bob Swanson, Finance Director FROM: Francesca Knot, Senior Legislative Assistant City Council SUBJECT: Reauest for Information from the Elected Officers Comnensation Commission HAND DELIVERED Once again, the Commission requests information previously prepared by Mr. Rubley and Mr. McComb regarding the following: • Information Relative to Council Expense Accounts, Mayor's Expense Account and the City Clerk's Expense Account. Please include the amount of each appropriation. • Comparative data regarding. the salaries of other elected officials throughout the State of Michigan. • City of Lansing Elected Officials Fringe Benefits including information as to which Councilmembers utilize specific benefits. • Executive Management Salaries (Department, Division and Department Manager salaries). • Current salaries of City of Lansing Elected Officials. • Internal Wage Comparison Report Pertaining to the City of Lansing Bargaining Units. It would be appreciated if this material could be delivered to me by March 8, 1995. I will be mailing documents, for the March 13 Commission meeting, to the members at that time. Thank you for your assistance in this regard. fek cc: Louanne Service Printed on Recycled Paper ELECTED OFFICERS COMF COMMISSION Louanne Service, Chairperson Todd A. Derby Elliot B. Glicksman Dr. Frederick Hogan Margie R. McNutt February 28, 1995 Honorable David C. Hollister Mayor of Lansing Ninth Floor, City Hall Lansing, Michigan Dear Mayor Hollister, The Commissioners have asked that I relay the following concerns to you regarding our 1995-96 deliberations: 1. - At the present time two vacancies exist on the board. To date, individuals have not been appointed by you to fill these vacancies. 2. Two Commissioners (Dr. Hogan and Elliot Glicksman) attended one meeting during the 93-94 deliberations and confirmed that they would attend our meeting on February 20, 1995, but did not. We are extremely concerned about the above mentioned issues. The Board takes its responsibilities very seriously but it is truly being hampered by the above -mentioned issues. Per the City Charter, this Board shall be a Seven member Board. We feel the residents of Lansing deserve a broader representation on the Commission. Please consider this letter our request for action on the part of your office. Due to the fact that the 95-96 sessions have commenced, the Commission members are under an extremely tight timeline to complete its deliberations by April 6, 1995. It is critical that our deliberations are not placed at risk due to the lack of a quorum or full representation. We look forward to receiving your response as to how you plan to resolve this situation in the very near future. S' cerely yours, LOUANNE SERVICE Chairperson fek cc: Council President Benavides and Councilmembers CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:32 p.m., by Chairperson Service. ROLL CALL: Louanne Service, Chairperson Rosemarie Aquilina Todd A.. Derby Dr. Elliot B. Glicksman Dr. Frederick Hogan - 5:50 p.m. Margie R. McNutt OTHERS PRESENT: Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Robert Swanson, Finance Director James Smiertka, City Attorney Liza Estlund-Olson, Mayor's Special Assistant APPROVAL OF MINUTES: COMMISSIONER MCNUTT MOVED THAT THE MINUTES OF THE FEBRUARY 20,1995, MEETING BE APPROVED AS PRINTED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER DERBY AND CARRIED 5-0. INTRODUCTION OF NEW COMMISSION MEMBER: Newly appointed Commissioner Aquilina was introduced. Confirmation will take place during the Council meeting tonight. FINANCIAL OVERVIEW BY THE FINANCE DIRECTOR: Mr. Swanson made a presentation to the Commissioners regarding the financial condition of the City. His presentation also included visual charts for the Commissioners to view. Documents submitted: Spreadsheets listing the revenues and expenditures estimates for FY 95-96 and the historical financial information from 1985-1994. The Finance Director reported on the following: • Federal Revenues Sharing. The City no longer receives revenue sharing funds. • 911 Millage funds which are reimbursed to the City via the County for the 911 Program. 2 • General Fund Revenues in 1994 - Approximately $79 Million. • $80.9 Million budgeted for Fiscal Year 1995. • Summaries of departmental budgets from 1985 through 1994. • Several Departmental functions have changed due to the Early Retirement Program. Reorganization of these departments took place in 1992-93 fiscal year. • Explanation of the General Administration account which includes monies for fringe benefits and pensions for City employees. • In previous years the fund balance was utilized to balance the upcoming fiscal year's budget. In 1994, the budget presented to City Council for the first time was a balanced budget. This practice will continue. • New ordinance was adopted which creates a Rainy Day Fund/Budget Stabilization Fund. $5.6 Million was placed in this fund to be used only for low economic/recession type emergency matters. 7 % to 10 % of the General Fund budget is set aside in this fund. • At the present time Lansing is the only city within the State that has adopted a Budget Stabilization Fund Ordinance. 3 Commissioner Hogan enters. • Mentioned the creation of an ambulance fee to recapture some of the revenues expended for this program. REVENUE SOURCES: • Property taxes - 29.4%. • 911 Reimbursement - 6.2 % . • Income Tax - 27.4% • Other/Investment Income/Return on Equit0oard of Water and Light - 8.9 • State Shared Revenues - 2 1. 1 • Property Taxes will increase this fiscal year by 1.5 • Income tax revenues are expected to increase by approximately 5 % . • State Shared Revenue income will decrease by approximately 3 % compared to this past fiscal year. • Total Revenue increases expected this fiscal year - 4.5 % . • 4% of the total budget will be dedicated to infrastructure improvements. N • Contract wage adjustments will be budgeted. The commissioners briefly discussed fringe benefits. The Mayor and several Councilmembers do not utilize the fringe benefits offered by the City. Ms. Aquilina clarified that the Mayor had vested with the State of Michigan while serving as a State Representative. He is vested for life and, therefore, would not require additional benefits provided by the City. Mr. Smiertka clarified for the Commissioners that the Exempt, Executive Pay Plan and Elected Officials, by the Personnel Rules, are all tie barred to the Teamsters Contract. They receive the same benefits as Teamster 580 represented employees. Per information provided by Mr. Smiertka the Mayor has to sign off on all of the benefits received by Department Heads as part of the contractual process. REVIEW OF CITY ATTORNEY OPINION/CLARIFICATION REGARDING COMPENSATION AND COMMISSION CHARGE: City Attorney Smiertka submitted his written opinion (No. 95-96) wherein he concludes that "by the adoption of the 1978 Charter, the people empowered the Commission to set the 'compensation' of elected officials, which include fringe benefits." Mr. Smiertka stated that he based his opinion primarily upon his review of the transcripts of the Charter Commission meetings pertaining to this issue and also upon an Attorney General's opinion. Commissioners Glicksman and Aquilina discussed the contents of the Attorney General Opinion with Mr. Smiertka. 5 Mr. Smiertka opined the definition of "compensation" includes salaries and fringe benefits. Commissioner Glicksman clarified for the record that the EOCC has the authority to make recommendations regarding fringe benefits but is not mandated to do so. He indicated that the EOCC did not have the appropriate information to make such decisions regarding fringe benefit in this short time period. He explained that the Commission ers should have the prerogative to review all of the fringe benefit packages available and offered to employees, which would take approximately one year to analyze. He recommended that the Commission not make a determination relative to fringe benefits during this session of deliberations. Chairperson Service reported that the previous Chair, Mr. Powers, had received several City Attorney opinions during his tenure with the Commission that stated that the Commission was to make recommendations regarding "salary" only, and that is how the Commission has been operating. Mr. Smiertka explained that the tie bar issue has come up during the discussions of the Early Retirement Plan and that it is not a good idea for the Elected Officials to make a determination as to what their fringe benefits are. He did not think that the City Council should have control over these types of things. It was his opinion that the elected officials should be dealt with separately. Commissioner Aquilina reported on her recollection of the Attorney General's Opinion in which it specifically stated that Compensation did not include fringe benefits. [. Mr. Smiertka indicated that the State Statute allows that Charters supersede any City ordinance, etc. Commissioner Derby inquired as to whether the City Attorney was making a determination from this date forward that the Commission should review and make recommendations regarding fringe benefits which deviates from past practices of the Commission. Mr. Smiertka stated that he was recommending that the EOCC consider and make recommendations regarding salaries and fringe benefits for City elected officials. Questions were raised by Commissioner Derby as to how did the Elected Officials get any fringe benefits in the first place - that some type of action had to be taken in order for elected officials to receive them. Commissioner Glicksman indicated that the Commission did not have enough time to analyze or prepare adequately for making this type of decision. THE COMMISSION RECEIVED THE OPINION. Commissioner Hogan exits. REVIEW OF THE DOCUMENTS REOUESTED BY THE COMMISSION PERTAINING TO ELECTED OFFICIALS: The commissioners reviewed the documents prepared by the Finance Department regarding Elected Officials salaries and benefits. The commissioners reviewed the following documents: 7 • The Elected Officials Compensation Comparisons, The Commissioners requested that the Finance Department provide them with a more detailed comparative analysis similar to the one that was provided to the Commission during the previous deliberations. • The Elected Officials Fringe Benefit Information for Current Officeholders. • The wage settlement information for the City of Lansing Bargaining Units. • The comparative Annual Salaries for City of Lansing Managers. • Elected Officials Expense Account Information. MEETING DATES AND TIMES: The Commission will meet on Monday, March 20 at 5:30 p.m., Wednesday, March 22 at 5:30 p.m., Monday, March 27 at 5:30 p.m., and Wednesday, March 29 at 5:30 p.m. The Elected Officials will be interviewed at the March 20 and March 22 meetings. These interviews will be taped and the transcripts of the interviews will be submitted to the Commissioners for review prior to the March 27 meeting. PUBLIC COMMENT: Members of the Public did not attend this meeting. E:3 ADIOURN: Commissioner Derby moved to adjourn at approximately 6:42 p.m. Commissioner McNutt supported the motion. The motion carried 4- 0. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission. SIGNED,,-- _ L&ANNE SERVICE, CHAIRPERSON E CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:35 p.m., by Chairperson Service. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Louanne Service, Chairperson Rosemarie Aquilina Dr. Elliot B. Glicksman-5:38 P.M. Dr. Frederick Hogan-5:41 P.M. Margie R. McNutt COMMISSIONER ABSENT: Absent/Excused: Todd A. Derby OTHERS PRESENT: Greg Koessel, Internal Auditor Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Councilmember Rick Lilly, Councilmember Sandy Allen Mayor David Hollister Liza Estlund-Olson, Mayor's Special Assistant APPROVAL OF MINUTES: COMMISSIONER MCNUTT MOVED THAT THE MINUTES OF THE MARCH 13,1995, MEETING BE APPROVED AS PRINTED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER AQUILINA AND CARRIED 3-0. Commissioner Glicksman enters. INFORMATIONAL BRIEFING BY INTERNAL AUDITOR GREG KOESSEL: Mr. Koessel briefed the Committee regarding the salaries and fringe benefits of elected officials. Discussion ensued regarding the promotional expense accounts that the each Councilmember has in the amount of $2,000 to be used for City promotional matters and City business. Mr. Koessel indicated that discussions have taken place between the Finance Director and the City Attorney relative to the possibility of rolling these funds into their salary. Commissioner Hogan enters. The Mayor has indicated that he is willing to look into this matter but has yet to direct his staff to initiate further discussions. 2 Mr. Koessel explained the process in regard to these expenditures. Per Mr, Koessel, being a City Councilmember is a full time job. The possibility of establishing a "per meeting stipend" has also been discussed. Those Councilmembers who attend all of the meetings would receive additional compensation. ELECTED OFFICIALS INTERVIEWS: Councilmembers Lilly, Allen and Mayor Hollister were interviewed by the Commission between 5:45 p.m. and 6:50 p.m. Councilmember Canady expressed to his staff, subsequent to the meeting, that he would not be participating in the interviews at this time. The Commissioners received a written statement by City Clerk Slade. Ms. Slade could not make her scheduled interview date and time because she was on vacation during this time. A transcript of the statements made by the Elected Officials will be prepared and sent to the Commissioners for review on Friday, March 24. A copy will also be attached to the original copy of the minutes as an addendum. PUBLIC COMMENT: Members of the Public were not in attendance. 3 OTHER BUSINESS: Commissioner Glicksman asked that the City Attorney be contacted relative to whether the Commission has the authority to make decisions as to whether the Councilmember promotional expense account funds can be rolled into their salaries. ADJOURN: Commissioner Glicksman moved to adjourn at approximately 6:55 p.m. Commissioner Hogan supported the motion. The motion carried 5-0. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission. SIGNED LOUANNE SEEAVICE, CHAIRPERSON (attachments) 8 • a i if;' CH i' CLERK TRANSCRIPTS OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS INTERVIEWS EOCC Meeting of March 20, 1995 Commissioners Present: Louanne Service, Chair Rosemarie Aquilina Dr. Elliot B. Glicksman Dr. Frederick Hogan Margie R. McNutt Commissioners Absent: Todd A. Derby Introductory comments by Louanne Service. COUNCILMEMBER LILLY LILLY: I haven't even thought at all about this interview because I have spending most of my time today working on the baseball project, which sort of goes through the standpoint that you look at - as Greg was saying there is so many things that come across your desk that you have to really prioritize what you are going to look at and what you put your emphasis on. That can take an awful lot of time so you just sort of set the files up all over the place and stuff. It is hard for me - I did not participate in this two years ago because at the time I was involved with negotiating with Todd Derby to run my campaign and so I took a conflict of interest and didn't even participate. I spent seven years on the County Board of Commissioners and we set our own salaries. I have never been through a process quite like this. We did all of that on our own. It really depends upon what the individual Councilmember wants to bring to the job. You can work anywhere from twenty hours a week to 45-50 hours a week depending upon what you want to do. The job is extremely different for an At Large Councilmember like myself than it is for a Ward Councilmember like Sandy Allen. Sandy will get probably anywhere from 25 to 50 phone calls a week depending upon what the issue might be. I may not get five calls a week. People really have a tendency to call their ward Councilmember for a lot of their concerns. On the other hand it it's -- incumbent upon the At Large Councilmembers to really carry their load by being prepared for the issues that come before their committees and before the Council as a whole. We don't have to do the constituent work that the Ward Councilmembers do. I am apt to try to carry a load on larger City wide issues and make sure I understand what is going on. X There is no way that any one Councilmember can know every single thing that is going on up here. It is absolutely impossible. The issues are too broad. They are too complex and so you try to segment yourself to what your committees are doing and stay along those lines. Then the Mayor will come along and say, do you want to be part of this Committee and I say, sure, you know. I guess the best way I can tell you what the demands are of this job is that the middle of last month I celebrated my one year anniversary. We have yet to be able to take a honeymoon. I have had two - three day weekends off in the last year and a half. That's all. SERVICE: I would like to open it up to any of the Commissioner who may have some questions. MCNUTT: How many hours per week do spend on work for the Council. LILLY: Again, it depends upon what the issue is. I would guess that just average I will put in - My wife would be a better judge of this than I would. Thirty five hours probably and then if you are dealing with an issue like baseball or the Civil Rights ordinance, it may be as much as 60 hours in a week depending upon what the vote is that is coming up that week. I think Greg is right. I don't know that. I probably do more outside reading and more reading of things than most of 3 the Councilmembers do with a possible exception of Councilmember Novak. I think that as a lawyer -- see I was trained as a Minister and he was trained as a Lawyer so the tendency for us - you know we are trained in the area of reading and research and doing those types of things but I would guess, that depending upon the issue it could be up to 60 hours. HOGAN: How much support staff do you have that can do your leg work so to speak? LILLY: We have three - I don't want to call them secretaries but what do we call you Fran. KNOT: Legislative assistants although secretaries are fine. LILLY: Legislative assistants. We have three full time and then we have Greg as the Internal Auditor. Ron Onufer is also a staff person and Greg is supposed to be in the process of hiring someone. So we will have six in total. I guess the point is though is that they can't do the reading for me. While they can do the typing for me. What I usually have them do and they will be happy to tell you how many times I used to have them run around doing this, is I will say, I just heard about this book, would you go find out Jocundry's has it. I send Tina out to get books from bookstores all of the time. To have them actually do the research for me, I wouldn't have them do that. I would do it myself. But then again, I was trained to research. That's what I do in my job for the Michigan Department of Transportation so I am not going to have someone else do that. I would not feel comfortable having someone else do that for me. SERVICE: Any other questions? AQUILINA: What kind of raise would you like to see? What percentage? LILLY: I don't know that I need a raise. I make a very, very good wage through the State and I don't look at this as being a place to make money or get something. I can talk to you about that because I have some very, very strong opinions on it. One of the areas is that I don't think is fair the way things are set up and I don't know whether this commission has any ability to do anything about it or whether or not it comes through contract is that being a State employee all of my health benefits are taken care of by the State. Paul Novak and I may be the only two who are not on the City's insurance plans. Consequently we are not getting compensated at the same level as the other Councilmembers are for essentially the same work and because some other agency is picking up our insurance policy. I could, because my wife works for the City. I 5 could go into hers or I could use mine but I don't. I don't know that the coverage is better than what I get at the State. There is gap there in terms of actual - full compensation between some of us. I would say there is an inequity between what a City Councilmember is making and what the County Board of Commissioners are making. We are all Committee Chairs and when I was a Committee Chair out at the County Board you got more than you did if you were a regular commissioner. You got more if you would in a leadership position but all of us are in leadership positions here on the Council and yet all of us are making less than their top leadership does and yet we carry more day to day responsibility than what they do. There is a difference there. I know they just went to the daily stipend and I would not recommend that at all. That is an easy way for a Councilmember to abuse the system and you have to have tremendous amount of internal control to insure that the hours that a Councilmember is saying that they were there, they were in fact there. How do you put something on it when a Councilmember says well, I went to some neighbor's house for a group meeting of six people. Do you have the auditor or the staff person call that person up and say, oh by the way was Councilmember so and so there and how long were they there and turning that thing in. I think that is a real, real problem with the meeting stipends or that type of a situation. You are better off with a salary and just expecting that you will go to those types of meetings. I have seen commissioners do that for X those stipends. Where the number of meetings tend to triple when you have stipends and stuff. I don't think that, that is probably a good situation. AQUILINA: So what you would like to see is a cafeteria plan so if you don's use the benefits then you would get some kind of compensation in your paycheck. LILLY: I think that would be helpful. Again, I am already - this job along with my wife's has already thrown me into a tax bracket that I have to pay the government all sorts of money so I am not looking for an increase. I will make myself real happy with all of my colleagues. I really don't think we are paid enough. I will tell you that. I really don't know what a fair wage would be. But then again, I don't think a part time Council for the size of the City of the City of Lansing is very wise either. I think we have gone past that. But I don't know that you could then turn around and offer somewhere in the neighborhood of forty to fifty thousand dollars and have the citizens accept that type of .. which is what you would have to offer to have people run for this office if it was full time. HOGAN: Well, if you did that then half the people on the Council couldn't be Councilmembers. They already have jobs so that is kind of why they have the salary set. like this so they 7 could attract people that might be better suited for the job of a Councilperson rather than..... LILLY: I don't mind the .. There is both sides of this. I really don't mind being part time. I am not. The job is not but by the same token being a State employee, with so many State employees in this City who have a stake in what this City does, that gives them representation there up here on the Council and they should have representation on the Council and if you were full time what you really do you move that type of representation away and what you end up with is career politicians who are here as politicians and not here as somebody else representing an occupation and I think it is important. There is a good argument not to go full time too. It is a full time job. It very easily is. Especially, when you have just dozed off to sleep and Roger McCoy calls you up and wants to know what he can use for his lead for eleven o'clock at night and they do that. They do that regularly and stuff. GLICKSMAN: Being part time in a classical sense and ..... any amount of work effort, it makes it difficult since many people who are on the Council have their own positions and what kind of hour commitment - a lot of constituent work would be at a time perhaps that.... LILLY: I am not sure I am following.... GLICKSMAN: Well, while we claim it is a part time job. The functions may be full time but most of the Councilmembers as I understand it, have other careers. LILLY: That is correct. GLICKSMAN: They are limited by their career time crunch so then you are working Saturdays and Sundays with the exception with the formal Council meetings. I mean I assume these other jobs are not Saturday and Sunday. LILLY: The reason that I haven't been able to take any time other than three day weekends is because I have no annual leave at the State. I run my limits up each week and I take them the next week and have virtually no... GLICKSMAN: So someone who is not working for an institution who has annual leave, a private practice or something, teaching, you can use those up in a week. LILLY: You have to have very, very, very understanding bosses. It is extremely difficult to do. I don't think that most of us have vacation available that - those of us that have full time jobs that we have vacation time set up because we have to spend so much time down here. 9 GLICKSMAN: I know I couldn't make the time.. LILLY: That often comes up in a campaign. GLICKSMAN: That is a shame because I think I could offer a lot... LILLY: My first campaign was against Alfreda Schmidt the first time she ran and I was still working for MDOT at that point in time and she ran on the issue that she would be a full time Councilmember and I couldn't because I had to take time off and stuff. GLICKSMAN: Intellectually -- what specifically is the work that you say - constitution work? LILLY: Can we all take two minutes and just walk over to my office and I will show you? it. GLICKSMAN: No, I don't want to visit the scene. Describe LILLY: I will show you the number of law books that I have got just on the Civil Rights ordinance that I had to readjust to be able to debate that with Paul Novak intelligently as an WE Attorney. I am not an Attorney. He is and I probably spent this year somewhere in the neighborhood of three hundred dollars out of my account going down to Cooley's bookstore and picking up books on constitution law, civil rights law and just reading those. I did the same thing with Baseball. I have a law book on sports law. My profession is a planner so I naturally pick up things on planning and zoning and land use. What I primarily spend my time on is keeping up to date - there are things going on in the legal areas of the committees which I am part of as well as what is going on in other cities, journals and that kind of stuff. But you are welcome to come and look at all of the law books that I have got sitting on my desk. GLICKSMAN: No I have them in my office, too., LILLY: The best thing that ever happened to me was to walk across the street from the bank and to walk into that bookstore and just start browsing. I picked up most of the... GLICKSMAN: Geez, it is much more convenient than going to State. LILLY: Cheaper too. I have gone out and picked up the Wes [sp] out a MSU where they are charging fifty and sixty dollars and over here they are no more than thirty five to forty but it is interesting because I have been able to also get a 11 visitors pass to the library. I will go down and use the library quite often to use McQuillan's series and stuff just to be able to know what we are supposed to know up here. SERVICE: Thank you. COUNCILMEMBER ALLEN: Introductory comments by Louanne Service. ALLEN: As some of you may know, politically I came from no where. I was a secretary in the Senate for about fourteen years but that was my exposure to government but I had always felt like people should take an active interest and .......effects you try to something about it. I have always done this in my work place. Always encouraging people, write your Senator. Well write your Congressman. Talk to your Councilperson and someone said to me, why don't you run for Council and I said, well, why don't I? So I did but before I ran - I am in a situation where I have to work to provide for myself. I don't have a supplement income or something like that. I went to people and I said, now look you know the situation better than I do. Can I be an effective Councilperson and still hold a full time job and they said, well, yeah, I think you could 12 probably do it and so on that basis I proceeded and since being on Council, I feel like I am at a real disadvantage because I do have to work full time and being on Council there are so many things and so many issues that you really an awful lot of flexibility. Let me back up a minute. I was also told that politics is a rich persons game. Well, I dearly resented that I and thought well I am going to show that this is not the case and I ran my campaign on $5,000 and in that respect I could be wrong. In doing a really good job at the rate the Council is paid now, you almost have to be either retired or you have to have another income of some kind but is has been very, very difficult to work full time. You are eliminating a whole lot of people who may be very, very good in serving this City as a Councilperson. We are really narrowing the scope of the ability of people to run for Council and do a real effective job and I personally feel that this is a full time job. I think any conscientious person could put sixty hours a week into this job easily. It would not be difficult at all. I know that is not - be acceptable to most people. Lacking that I just wish that the Commission would certainly look at raising the compensation to the level whereby someone could work part time and then be on Council too. Someone like me for example because I -----there are issues that I want to delve in more thoroughly but because of the time limitations I really can't and I have to accept what the Administration.... For example, this whole baseball issue. We are all aware that the Administration is in favor as a lot of people are but there are 13 questions that I need the answers to and when someone is selling you a product they give you the rosy picture. They give you what is good about the product and you have to go out and find out on your own what the other side of that coin is and when you don't have that kind of time. Our staff is wonderful. Don't get me wrong but they are limited too. They work for eight people and they are excellent but they can only do so much and you have to do some of it on your own. Anyway that is where I am at. I guess that kind of explains my position to you. HOGAN: You just raised an issue about support staff. What - the three people have to work for eight people and you said you would like to see the compensation raised to a level where you could work part time and you could put more time into.... What about bringing on more support staff? Would that be helpful? ALLEN: No, I still feel like - although the girls are really good and top notch. There is a certain amount that you have to do yourself. You have to make these ..... For example, I tried calling the Mayor of Canton, Ohio, about the baseball team the have. There are contacts that you have to make yourself. You really do. Particularly as a ward person. You get an awful lot of phone calls and I have a very, very active ward. They are very conscientious and they are very aware of their local 14 government and every phone call I get, they are not interested in talking to a staff person. They want to talk to a Councilperson. Many times in trying to facilitate things and make them move a little faster you have to initiate the call to the department head. Like I say, while the girls are good, the department head may push her request down the road, where if you need an immediate answer you are more than likely to get it from the Councilperson. AQUILINA: What percentage raise do you think you would like to see? ALLEN: Well, I was talking with someone in Grand Rapids and their Council work part time and they make $17, 500. I think that is appropriate. I know it is a pretty big jump from what we are making now. I really do feel it is appropriate. Everyone I have talked to who are the Councilmembers in other Cities, the first thing they will tell you is that it is not a part time job. The pay me part time but the activity is not. AQUILINA: What do you do full time? ALLEN: I am a secretary at Michigan National Bank. AQUILINA: Do you get benefits through the bank? 15 ALLEN: Yes, although I am one of the casualties of Michigan National. I am being streamlined after fifteen years of service there. This is happening to a lot of us there. Over a thousand employees are being streamlined out. Our whole department will disappear in September so that leaves me in a position of trying to get another job and, of course, that is a difficult thing too, because when you are applying for a job with a new employer, the first thing they will say, is well wait a minute, if you are on City Council, how much time are you going to have take away from the job. What kind of flexibility do you need: GLICKSMAN: That raises an interesting question. That almost seems that they are thinking that it is full time. That question almost assumes that. What functions do you do? ALLEN: My lunch hours are spent at committee meetings. There are committee meetings at night. There are public meetings at night. I have four or five request for my time every evening. Most of the time I try to choose two or three if I can juggle the time slots. If I can't I have to pick one that I think probably is a priority over the others. Generally I get home at ten o'clock at night or later. Then I start reading and between that I try to juggle phone calls to constituents and they are always surprised when I call on Friday night or early Saturday 16 morning or even Saturday night and Sunday. When I ran, I ran to let people know that I have a full time. I have to work and this is what make me different from some of the others. I will get a different approach. I have to make the same kinds of decisions the working guy out there does. That kind of give me a different representation ..... What was your question again? There was surprise at the time I spend calling people back and my commitment was when I am not working at my full time job, I belong to the City and I have pretty much done that. I encourage people to call me at home. HOGAN: Are your surprised that it requires so much of your time? ALLEN: Yes. I knew to some degree how much it would require but there are many things that you simply can not know until you are there. Yes, that is true but I love it. I love being a Ward Councilperson because you get to meet people one on one and you get to try and help them. GLICKSMAN: If we didn't raise it all ..... You would still be in there next time to run? ALLEN: Yes. You are right. But you know something I would probably have ulcers and my health would be totally a 17 mess. The office girls are always telling me you can't do so much. You've got to rest more. No there is too much to be done. AQUILINA: You have benefits with your other job. Do you take them with this job as well? ALLEN: No. I do not. AQUILINA: You are looking for another full time which may carry benefits. In that case would you like to see a cafeteria style plan where you could get compensation for not taking benefits? ALLEN: That certainly would be interesting. To what extent that would provide additional income in lieu of the benefits. I don't know what that would be. AQUILINA: There are some people that are actually receiving more compensation by virtue of benefits. ALLEN: That would certainly be a consideration. Sure. AQUILINA: How many hours are you here per week? ALLEN: 20 hours per week. Saturday and Sunday at least five hours. Close to 35 hours a week. There are times PRO when I get home at tent thirty and start to read a report, I 've fallen asleep on the davenport with the report in my hand and it dropped to the floor and woke me up. I know it is not very popular to increase elected officials compensation. It certainly isn't but on the other hand, I think that most people out there will agree that it is a full time job and if they knew how much we made they would be a little bit surprised. I have made my pitch. Good bye. MAYOR HOLLISTER: Introductory comments by Louanne Service. HOLLISTER: The Mayor can not do anything alone. The Mayor has to work collaboratively with the Council and I feel that Council is long over due for an increase in their compensation. It has been since 1991, that the Council got an increase. I think a seven to ten percent increase in warranted. They have been good partners. They have worked hard. They spend a lot of hours at it. I do not think they are adequately compensated for all of the work that they put in. I don't think I would support a full time Council that a couple of people have suggested - I don't think they are asking that in that reality. W7 Most of them have jobs but I do think that they merit an increase. I know our unions have been in the same time have gotten increases - the smallest increase since 91 would be a 7 1 /2 increase and most of them are around 10 percent. So I think anything in that range is fair and equitable and we are in the middle of collective bargaining so I really can't really comment on that, but in the last couple of years, 2 1 /2 percent has been about what the unions have collectively bargained. I personally believe that the Mayor should be the highest paid official in the City. The Mayor is not. Two of the departments heads, the Chief and I think Reickel, who get more than the Mayor. I don't care if it is me or whoever, I think a strategy might be over four years to bring him up. A big jump may be more than the public would support but Frankly I think that the public would support the Mayor just like they supported the Governor being the highest paid official in the State. If you did that I think you would want to stagger it over a couple of years and that would make it comparable to some of the surrounding communities. Basically, that is really all I have to say. Oh, I think Marilynn Slade is grossly underpaid. She is a department head very much like all of the other department heads. Normally the department heads are fifty to seventy five and given the responsibilities that she has under the Charter, R11 I think it only fair that she be compensated in comparable to department heads like Judy Kehler, although she runs a little larger department. Look at the Assessor's Office. Look at the Treasurer's Office and offices about the same size. I think the Clerk is also deserving of a pay that is equal and commensurate with some of the department heads. As far as I know the hours is about the same as the Legislature. I generally work a sixteen hour day. The intensity is more personal and it demands a much more attention to detail than the Legislature. In the Legislature you can pick and choose your issues. Here, it's whatever comes at you and I am generally here at 6:30 - 7:00 p.m. answering the phone -- someone has a pot hole on the street to a major debate on the stadium or whatever else it might be. I think we have demonstrated to the public that we are willing to put fill time effort into this job and whoever the Mayor is should be compensated judiciously. It is a lot of work. GLICKSMAN: Mr. Mayor, my own philosophy and I looked at the comparative annual salaries for City executive employees. I have always felt and I am speaking not for anyone else but me, and the record shall reflect that - I have always felt that the Mayor should be the highest paid official. Are there department heads that are of such training and experience that the society recognizes that they may have a little bit more 21 because of it. I am thinking out loud and wanting a response because my premise has always been that I view - especially since if the Mayor is a figurehead, then we have a different question. If we are talking about the Chief operating Officer of this City, then that follows suit with my remark. HOLLISTER: When I was in the Legislature I always supported elevating the Governor to the highest paid salary. I chaired the DSS budget and there were at least a half dozen physicians in the system that were higher than the Governor and higher than the department director. I also was in the mental health budget and it was - there were a least a dozen psychiatrists who are highly advanced trained people. Even then it seemed like the Governor should be given that training, I really hadn't given that a lot of thought. I always supported it and that had pretty much been my policy, but here I think it is more a question of seniority. Reickel who is at the top he has been around awhile and came in at a higher level and he is at the top of his step so he is making this salary. I think if you did a survey in the public if they had to choose between paying the Mayor that salary or the Parks Director, I think it would be pretty clear who they would choose because of the enormity of the issues that you have to deal with. The other person is a Chief of Police. 22 GLICKSMAN: That is not an old position. That person -- the Chief of Police is a relatively new position. I mean the person who occupies it is relatively new. HOLLISTER: It is a new position. I think seven years. GLICKSMAN: But he is not a career person of twenty five years or .. HOLLISTER: Not as Chief but he is a career person in the department. He carries that seniority. GLICKSMAN: It surprises me quite frankly. A City like this with its problems of policing society perhaps it may be but it took me back vis a vie the Mayor. Like I said I am speaking for myself. HOLLISTER: Well, the Chief is - his salary is a function of his seniority. I mean it is not a lot of special training - in the academy that would say this person... GLICKSMAN: It is really a function - if he were to leave tomorrow and you elevated internally that had the same seniority, it would right back this way. 23 GLI C KS MAN : What if he did not. What if he brought somebody from the outside? HOLLISTER: It would be different. GLICKSMAN: Well, then that is another theory. Are we compensation someone for the function and the quality of the work or are we talking about .... HOLLISTER: Well, traditionally around here that position had been tie barred. It is a political and highly controversial issue that he is tie barred some of the collective bargaining salaries where the chief salary was going up at the same. He always got the best deal that was made. For example, when we hired departments when I cam in initially. All of the new people came in - we put them in a mid range in the salary schedule so they would have -------------It comes out to a ... I am recommending a 5% increase for the department heads in next year's budget. This is a growth budget. This year was a hold even budget. Next year's budget there is a modest growth. GLI C KSMAN : What do you think the public would think about a 7 to 10 percent increase? M HOLLISTER: I think it has changed dramatically in the last year. Our polling........ the polling that was done on the stadium. People have a sense that the City has turned around. They have a sense that there is a competent team at City Hall that knows what they are doing. They are working hard and even the people that don't like some of the stuff we are doing gave us very high ratings. That is probably the most striking thing I found about the poll that Bernie Porn did was that ....While our popularity was 69%. Our job rating was 75% which means that 60% of the people don't even like you but they think you are doing a good job and I think they are willing to compensate people that they think are doing a good job. GLICKSMAN: Especially if it was shown that there wasn't any changes in the last couple of years and I think that happened last time at the State. HOLLISTER: The public - as long as they feel that people are working hard, giving it their best shot, working together are trying to fix the problem and not just play games, they will be supportive. If they have a sense that games are being played or it is all partisan, they won't have good tolerance at all so how you frame your rationale is important, I think. 25 GLICKSMAN: Talking about that. Are there going to be budgets for our pot holes that are getting bigger than the cars? HOLLISTER: We are putting together a seven year plan to bring our streets up to ... It is going to take awhile because it has been neglected for over a decade. GLICKSMAN: Because I think this is true in the whole Country the infrastructure - - I don't want to monopolize the compensation. AQUILINA: You said you wanted this raise because I agree that you should be the highest paid in the City but you wanted it over four years? HOLLISTER: I don't know how you could do it over four. I think you can do it over a couple of years. I think that I will turn much of it back. I will turn it over to charity because I don't want to have it seem self serving. That is something I would do personally. The Chief executive officer in a strong Mayor form of government that requires your attention to virtually every detail and every department merits being the highest paid position. AQUILINA: What would the cap be for you? The Police Chief is $80,000. Is it $85,000? 26 HOLLISTER: You can expect the Chief to get 3.5 or 4% next year because of the way their bargaining process is. AQUILINA: So where would you want to be in two years? GLICKSMAN: 4% would give him another $3,200. AQUILINA: One of the other things we have to look at it are the fringes. I know you don't use them because you are vested at the State. You don't take the fringes but - and some of the Councilmembers don't take them either. Would you be in favor of a cafeteria plan? HOLLISTER: Yes. Give them options. If they do not use the fringes, they can cash them out. I think that is very fair and it can be customized for each family as to their own needs and as the needs change over time, they can adjust them. I think that is very fair. We did it in the Legislature and it worked very well. SERVICE: Thank you for your time. End of Transcript 27 w r MINUTES CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:42 p.m., by Chairperson Service, COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Louanne Service, Chairperson Rosemarie Aquilina Dr. Elliot B. Glicksman Margie R. McNutt COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Absent/Excused: Todd A. Derby Dr. Frederick Hogan OTHERS PRESENT: Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary Council President Tony Benavides Councilmember Paul Novak Councilmember Ellen Beal Council Vice -President Howard Jones Councilmember Robert Brockwell Lloyd Teets, Concerned Citizens to Save Lansing Harold Leeman, Jr., Member of the Public APPROVAL OF MINUTES: COMMISSIONER MCNUTT MOVED THAT THE MINUTES OF THE MARCH 20,1995, MEETING BE APPROVED AS PRINTED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER GLICKSMAN AND CARRIED 4-0. ELECTED OFFICIALS INTERVIEWS: Councilmembers Benavides, Novak, Beal, Jones, and Brockwell were interviewed by the Commission between 5:30 p.m. and 6:50 p.m. A copy of the transcript will be attached to the original copy of the minutes as an addendum. REVISED COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS: Awaiting revised version from the Finance Department. PUBLIC COMMENT: 2 Lloyd Teets spoke in support of an increase for all of the Elected Officials. Harold Leeman, Jr., spoke in support of an increase for all of the Elected Officials. OTHER BUSINESS/GENERAL DISCUSSION: A consensus of the Commission after discussion of the testimonial information were in support of some type of increase for the Elected Officials and supportive of a cafeteria type package being established for the Elected Officials. General recommendation: $20,000 for Councilmembers and a differential in payment for President and Vice President; that the Mayor be the highest paid official in City Government; that the City Clerk be paid a comparable salary to other Clerks in similar cities; that the expense accounts be left in tact unless otherwise changed by the Council during the budget process. Commissioner Glicksman will prepare a draft recommendation for the Commissioners to consider on Monday, March 27. ADJOURN: Commissioner McNutt moved to adjourn at approximately 7:16 p.m. Commissioner Glicksman supported the motion. The motion carried 4-0. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission. 3W / ys Q SIGNED��- LClUANNE SERVICE, CHAIRPERSON 11 ELECTED OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION CITY CLL. TRANSCRIPTS OF THE ELECTED OFFICALS INTERVIEWS EOCC Meeting of March 22, 1995 Commissioners Present: Louanne Service, Chair Rosemarie Aquilina Dr. Elliot B. Glicksman Margie R. McNutt Commissioners Absent: Todd A. Derby Dr. Frederick Hogan COUNCILMEMBER BENAVIDES Introductory comments by Louanne Service. Benavides: I just want to say that I totally enjoy the job. I think it is very challenging. I think it take a lot of balance on the part of a person to be able to not only absorb everything that is going on but be able to take and give. As far as my hours is concerned, I spend about twenty five or thirty hours a week. It depends on what is going on. The calls are basically the same thing. You could get as many as fifty and sixty in one week and �� .,,;a ; .�;� �� '�� again, you can get as low as three or four. So it depends. The challenge here is that actually when you are a elected official, it is very hard. It is very hard on you and very hard on your family because you can't have any skeletons in your closet and you have to be very conscientious. You have to be a model. You have to be right down the line and I think at times it brings a lot of stress to your family, especially your wife and your children but other than that I think, I feel that I do make a difference in what I do and I fell that the services of community are being somewhat met and that - there is along ways to go but I think just like anything else you only get what you put into it. I happen to have a j ob where it is very flexible. My j ob - I am my own personal boss, really. I have fifty people that work for me so I schedule myself accordingly and the committee meetings that we have within the Council, my attendance is very good. I think you can check my attendance at Council meetings and committee meetings and you will find that I have probably in the upper 90's if not close to 100%. So I don't have any complaints. Service: Any questions of the Commissioners for Mr. Benavides? Aquilina: Do you believe that you deserve a raise? 2 Benavides: Let's put it this way. When you run the job you really did not run because of the money. I think you run because you area committed individual, because you felt that you could be of help to the residents. In my part, money was never an issue. I happen to have good job. I happen to have - my salary is adequate. My wife works so money is not an issue. I think when you compare what we do with others, and I want to mention any other elected officials that are also receiving ... I think that for the amount of work that we do and the amount of abuse that we take, you know, probably you should consider probably a little more. The last time we took a recommendation from this Compensation Commission was rejected but us, by the Council, but we did allow the Mayor and City Clerk to do so. So, if you were to actually - O think it has been four years since we have had any increase at all so if you were to do an increase, I don't know how the community will take it but I think it is justifiable. I think you average eight or ten dollars per hour right now. If I figure it out that it is twenty five hours per week.. I think you will find that that majority of the Councilmembers would like to do that. Then of course you have some of the Councilmembers that have - actually it costs them a lot of money to be here, of their own pocket. They could actually be making more if they weren't but that is part of their giving. Aquilina: Do you have fringe benefits on our current job? 3 Benavides: Yes. Aquilina: So you don't take them from the City? Benavides: This is my fourteenth year on the Council. I do have the benefits on the City. Back then when I cam in the package that was given to me, I accepted that and that was including the medical benefits and retirement and I can not remember what else. Aquilina: Is there any change you would like to see in your benefits? Benavides: No. Not really. I think it changes from time to time in terms of adjustments into what you pay either the retirement or the insurance of whatever but I see that the co pays and whatever is adjustable. Other than that. I think the plan that we have is a medium. It is not a real fancy. It is Blue Cross and Blue Shield but it is not a really fancy private room type of service. Service: Any other questions. Guess not. Thank you. in Benavides: Thank you for the opportunity. This is the high prices Attorney. I only make about 1/5 of what he makes. -------------------- COUNCILMEMBER NOVAK. Novak: I used to be a high priced Attorney, then I went to work for the State. Service: Thank you, Mr. Novak. Thank you for coming. We would like you to take the opportunity to say anything you want to say about the position of City Council. Novak: I think it is roughly a twenty to twenty five hour a week. Sometimes more than that, obviously, when budget season, when there are particular issues that seem to be hopping and sometimes less. That gives a good range as to what it is. I don't know that there is really too much that I have to say regarding the commitment or the level of compensation. I was listening to some of Tony's comments. The option, I believe, does not exist to not take some of the benefits as they currently exist. I know, for instance, the pension benefits that are existence, I specifically indicated that I didn't wand and was informed by the City Attorney, at least informally without having him perform a lot of legal analysis, that I didn't have a 5 choice in that. So, in terms of flexible benefits in the extent from which a particular benefit packages can be rejected, that might be something you may want to look at or, you know, cafeteria type of plans in a manner that would be similar to a regular flexibility that is being provided to City employees as a whole. On that I don't have much to say unless you have questions. Service: I'll open it up to the Commissioners. Aquilina: Are you saying you don't want an increase. Would you like an increase? Novak: I probably wouldn't vote for one. Aquilina: Okay, but if we gave you one, what would you like to see? I mean you haven't been raised since 1991 so I don't think there is much objection to some kind of raise and we have to figure out how much. I guess you put in twenty five hours a week, which is a lot of time... Novak: Yeah. But I mean that was pretty my expectation when I ran for office and I didn't really expect the compensation to be that related to the kind of time putting in anyway. I don't know. I am pretty indifferent as to whether you recommend an increase or not to tell you the truth. A Aquilina: Well, you answered the question. Service: Any one else. Thank you COUNCILMEMBER BEAL. Introductory statement by Louanne Service. Beal: I guess, in terms of how I view my job as Councilmember, I like to ......this old saying which is the Mayor proposes, the Council..... I don't necessarily look at is as our job to try to have all of these big initiatives. Basically, it is a part of job and we really don't necessarily have the time to do that unless you are like Howard Jones and you are retired. I guess in terms of the amount of work, particularly when you are dealing with multi million projects such as the baseball stadium, MUCC, those kinds of thing where you get an administration has a proposal and they clearly want to it go and they have all of their staff around them. It makes really kind of puts us a disadvantage to really spend on time........ Having said that I think we need more money. You already know that because I already told you that last time. I mean I think, I haven't done any comparisons between like size 7 cities but I do know that a lot of our communities that are our size pay their Councilmembers more than us. I think -- the Mayor --------- the irony of it is a lot of people already think we make a lot. We only get this much money ........... I guess that is it. I just think that for the amount of hours I know I spend. I am a ward Councilmember and I get calls from people always and at all hours because generally..... Most calls come all of the time. Holidays. In the morning and in the middle of night. Glicksman: How much time do you spend. Break it down and I am not talking about Committee meetings and Committee of the Whole - I would like to know how many hours you think you spend? Beal: I consider my fundamental role here is fiduciary in terms of safeguarding this end of it - the taxpayers end of it. In terms of my role, especially like right now when I am chairing Ways and Means, I spend probably a good portion of the day, last night, talking to various people to get information in regard to the market. I spend a lot of the weekend preparing for Monday night's meeting and even thin it is still catch up because we are trying to get information from the Administration and they are dealing with all kinds of issues right now. Baseball is the lead thing and so a lot of other things are falling by the wayside. You know, I could say twenty hours a week. It is just really depends on the week and you have to deal with constituent problems, constituent calls and going to meetings. I tend to be out and I am regular type of person, a mom with two kids. I can say twenty hours a week not counting the community time, probably, and then there is, for example today, I have the Tri County Employment which I did not go to because I had a meeting with the Mayor and I also serve on two committees Ways and Means is a demanding committee so I spend more time on that. There is outside obligations and I don't have many as as --like I say, I have two kids and I have all of the priorities but I know the other Councilmembers serve on committees and so it comes along with it because we are expected, not just because it would be nice if people decided to join a board. Lansing is obligated to have representatives. Glicksman: Do you have an outside position. Beal: Yeah. I am basically at this point trying to get a full time teaching job in Lansing. I am currently substituting at Eastern High School, which I have got a lot to tell you a lot about that too. In being a Teacher, I have people talking to me all day about some of these things. .......The situation is now you could not live - well, you could if you lived very modestly, like in a tent. A Glicksman: This is not a position ---to be a full time job yet that the amount of time you spend is a lot more when you consider for a part time activity. Beal: You also have to look at what is your level of professionalism. .......We are expected to understand very complicated issues and so it takes a lot of time. It is just immeasurable the amount of time....... Glicksman: Preparation in studying an issue. Beal: Of course. Glicksman: Feeling that you have an independence in thought. You probably have very little professional staff aides. Beal: Council. Listen, they've got a huge Finance Department down on the eighth floor for the Administration. We have one Internal Auditor. We are trying to hire him some help. That is one Internal Auditor for eight people who have questions all of the issues they are dealing with and need financial impact.... you. Glicksman: You don't have a librarian assigned to 10 Beal: Oh no. Glicksman: Well you are still responsible for making decisions on these issue and one would assume that the decision is not an arbitrary one but thought out so you are talking about a lot of time. Beal: My are very thought out and not only that. Sometimes there decisions.... My decisions in general are based on listening to the public, listening to the people that call me. I figure for everybody that calls me probably 90%--- for every letter I get it might represent 100. You know for people that take that amount of time. You need that contact. So I try to get a sense. I also look very hard at what people make up the City. One of the issues I have had with baseball, you know 49% of the people that live in Lansing they make less than $25,000 so I am very mindful on how we use their tax dollars... What is the benefit of things. I mean economic development is a really big issue. There is a lot of policy decisions that have to be made in terms of how are we going to invest tax dollars and what is their return. We are really starting to weigh those things. Trying to really have enough information to make a good decision so that entails a lot of work... I am thinking I need to get on the phone and talk to Grand Rapids and ask them some questions so I could get a real. Not someone is going to come in and give me the most rosy scenario. The problem that you 11 have is that you constantly have people talking to you calling you up and wanting to take you out to lunch. Now this is one is where I cut down hours a little bit. I do not do lunch or breakfast because I find that usually they want to talk to you about something that can be talked about in the first ten minutes and then they want to buy me lunch and ----- I don't generally do that. I say you want to meet with me you can meet me in my office before Council or before Committee of the Whole because I don't have the time for that but you do have those peoples, Chamber of Commerce people or different developers, .........that they have some vested interest and so I find my own feeling is that I want to get straight information and sometimes that entails doing my own research. Calling to other communities and really trying to get a fix. I mean this baseball situation is just a perfect example. Now, obviously I think this Council is a lot more active that the previous one. You know...... on the early retirement. Again, we were supposed to understand complicated issues, whereby the Finance Director basically rammed it down our throat and just to be able to get enough information to ask intelligent questions takes time and effort. We learned that we have to take that time to do that. Yeah, it is a lot. I accept the fact that all of us except for Howard because he is retired, you know, we have to seek full time employment and we have other jobs and it is a lot. You know, I probably put in between teaching and this job, 12 probably eighty hours per week. You got a family and a house it is a lot of demands. Glicksman: There are a lot of demands in life. We understand it. Aquilina: What percentage raise would you like to see? Beal: Not 7%. I saw that and I just laughed. I guess I would have to say that we are low. We are low compared to other so I would say at least a 20% increase because I think it hasn't gone up in a long time. Aquilina: What about your fringes? Beal: You mean in terms of health insurance. Well, for me I use health insurance. Like I say, once I get a better teaching job, then it won't be an issue to me. You mean like our expense accounts? That kind of thing? Aquilina: Well, all of the health benefits, insurance, all of that. Are there are any issue that you need to raise with the fringe benefits? 13 Beal: No. I think they are very certainly adequate. For most people they are not an issue because they have insurance through some other agency. Aquilina: So would you be in favor of a cafeteria plan so that once - let's say you teach you have your benefits somewhere you could take dollars instead of insurance here. Beal: I think we actually have that. I think Bob Brockwell takes. He turns his back. In terms of our expense account. Personally, I turn money back every year. I probably turn back more money than anybody. Now, this year, we spend a little more money because we have had to get a little more information on the City Market. Last year, I turned back about $600-700 but then again I don't go out to lunch. I know other people go through it real fast. I know I would prefer to have that salary because I don't. To me I am not a big spender. I don't spend a lot of time that won't live in Lansing. Let's put it that way. You know, you go to all of these things. To me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They all want something. I appreciate the fact that they are doing their part. The only other thing I would say. Somebody said you were considering paying the President a per diem more or something. If you are the President of the Council you would get more money. I think it is a good idea. I think it is fair. The President of the Council spends an awful lot of time and also Vice -President. The Vice- 14 President is basically in charge of our staff and they basically have to be the personnel manager and sign time cards and do all of that kind of staff. Do personnel evaluations and I think that ran rough shod for a awhile because it was not being well done. I think Rick Lilly came in last year and really set a standard with evaluations. He kept track of hours, overtime policy. If nobody is watching you've got staff doing basically whatever they want so I would favor at least $2,0000 per diem for the President of the Council. Quite frankly people have asked me to be President, and I would say, does it pay more? I came from County government where we used to pay the Chairman of the Board $4, 000 than the rest of the commissioners and so it is a lot more work and obligation to be places. A lot more meetings too. Personally, I like being chair of Ways and Means. I think you might want to consider that. Glicksman: Thank you very much. Beal: Thank you for having me. ----------------------- COUNCILMEMBER JONES: Introductory Remarks by Louanne Service 15 Jones: First of all that I think the salaries that are paid to the Council people are very inadequate in terms of the responsibilities that we are expected to carry out and I think if you want to be reasonable and fair about this that you have to look at the salaries that are being paid to middle management in this City and those salaries are running between $45- 60,000 per year plus the Department Heads are getting from $70, 000 - $80, 000 per year. It would seem only reasonable to me that a City Councilmember who tends to the business of this City and that includes at least four committee functions as well as serving as a general member of the Council that you are looking at a more than a half time job and on that basis I would recommend that you think in terms of $25,000 for this position because I think number one this will help to attract people that are willing to put this kind of time into this position and I know at the present time at least six or seven of the Council people are spending 25 hours or even more in their function as a City Councilmember. I think that we have allowed this situation to worsen as the years go by because this has not been addressed probably because some people feel that politically it might hurt them. Well, I think this City is being hurt politically because we aren't willing to pay a decent wage to people who serve as City Council and I doubt if many of you sitting around this table would be willing to work the hours that some of us work for $12, 000 a year and that is the way I feel about it. 16 Service: Any questions? Aquilina: How about the fringe benefits? Jones: I think we have access to the fringe package as far as I am concerned is adequate. Some of us don't apply for benefits. I don't get any health care because I already have that so that is money that the City saves and I know that is expensive. I think the only ones that I am involved in right now are dental and as you get older your teeth get worse so it pays to have two or three dental policies. The other one is the retirement benefits. That's what I like is a little humor so it terms of the retirement package, I think it is reasonable. That is the same thing that other employees get. Service: Any more questions? Jones: Is that it? McNutt: That's it. Thank you. Jones: There is one thing? If you are looking at officeholder expense please think about the City of Detroit. They each get $360,000 per year. That will give you something to think about. Thank you. 17 Introductory comments by Louanne Service. COUNCILMEMBER BROCKWELL. Brockwell: Well, I have always felt that Councilmembers were underpaid. It is considered a part time position but there is large decisions that have to be made Councilmembers some of them having tremendous impacts on the community. The part time salary that a Councilmember gets is even less than a receptionist gets and I don't know if that is quite fair or not. I have talked to some of the other Councilmembers - the newer members have suggested that the possibly the salaries might be - I definitely feel they should be much better than what they are. There hasn't been a raise in salaries since 1990, I think, or maybe it was before I was on Council I think. I don't know how much that was. Service: It went to $12, 206 to $12, 877 in July of 1990 and this commission proposed a modest increase and the Council turned it down. Glicksman: The economic conditions were different weren't they not Councilmember? Brockwell: Yes. I think the economic conditions are better than they were there then. I think the departments at that time, I think one of the reasons why we didn't accept the raise was because we had asked others not to take raise but the departments -- all of the other departments, unions, are getting raises now basically from 5% to 7% over a couple of years. Now, even Lloyd has been down here there most people who feel that Councilmembers are underpaid. He has made the statement to me many times that he would not take the job because it didn't pay enough. We don't always agree on things, but there is one thing that we do agree upon. Then I guess the problem is that I see it is that you have some Councilmembers, while I might be fortunate enough that has more flexible time than others. A lot of them don't have flexible time. They work for the State of Michigan or they work for the banks and as currently stands now Howard and I probably spend more time than any Councilmember because we are more flexible. Howard is retired and I am in the insurance business but I can dictated my hours, fortunately. Mark Canady who doesn't come to basically probably 90% of the Committee meetings and probably has more excused absences from the regular Council meetings still draws the same pay as the Councilmembers that spend more time here and I don't know if that is exactly fair either. I know the County Commissioners make something like a $14, 000 plus salary and attend half the 19 meetings that we do but they get paid a per diem for every meeting they attend. I can't begin to tell you. I am required to be on three committees within the City Council structure and I am required to be on three committees outside the committee structure. I have been added to the EDC, the TIFA boards, Tri County Office on Aging and matter of fact I have a meeting at 7:30 p.m. tonight with Tri County Planning. It just seems like there seems to be more committees now under the new Administration that requires you to be at more committees because they are getting more participation from the public and you are required to be on some additional committees that you normally wouldn't have been so it is really a time consuming - I just think we are underpaid. Definitely underpaid. Aquilina: What percentage wage would you like to see? Brockwell: I don't know. I know what some of them have proposed. I know what the Mayor was going to propose but I don't know if that is even enough. I think that if you look at it from a responsibility standpoint - from legislative standpoint and a standpoint, I think they should be paid, if it is part time job, they should be paid half of what a manager makes or middle management or department head something close to that. I know I have been to other cities and I have seen what some other Councilmembers make. Louisville, Kentucky 20 which is comparable to Lansing in population, they make $25,000 per year - I think it is $30,000 per year plus they have an expense account of $25,000. McNutt: Each Councilmember? Brockwell: Yes. And they don't meet as often as we do. Yes, each Councilmember and they actually have I think 11 / 12 Councilmembers instead of eight and they are slightly higher than in population than we are but by about $25,000 more maybe. What I find when I go around the Country, in Japan, the Councilmembers in Japan spend eight weeks, get $40,000 and have cars and only spend eight weeks. That is more like a legislature though. City wide. Glicksman: What about Tokyo? Brockwell: Otsu is the one that I went to and they had forty Councilmembers - population of a million or so. They are pretty big. All of those cities are pretty big. A mountain separates them. It is just City after City, after City, but they get $40,000 for eight weeks of work. Glicksman: What would the political environment if a significant raise were recommended? I am talking about the political environment of the Council. I mean outside you are 21 going to get all kinds of people ---- Many people say you should vote, vote for nothing. There are people like that. That is okay, I give them their day, too. But the fact of the matter is, I mean are we talking about recommendations of significant thought provoking analysis and them it comes to the Council and they say, no. We had a vote like that. Brockwell: I think the climate has changed. I don't think it is the same as it was four or five years ago, so I don't think that it would be the same. I know there are some political activists who probably would say that it is justified. McNutt: How many hours do you put into? Brockwell: I am over. I am way over. I probably spend more. If you were to consider my night time. I would venture to say that I am probably close to full time. McNutt: You are close to forty hours then? Brockwell: Oh yes, easy. I can tell you that I put in from 5:00 p.m., the normal quitting time that I put in at least five or six hours a night more than after that. I can probably tell you that is good for at least three nights out of the week. So, 22 Glicksman: Councilman, is there a difference in the responsibility role between an at Large and a Ward only because of the geographical area, I assume that is why? Brockwell: Oh yes. Glicksman: I wish for you to comment on that. Brockwell: I know that some people call me and go past the Ward Councilmember maybe not so much because that the Ward Councilmember can't answer the question and he just says, a lot of times the at large person is in here and someone calls in and if a ward Councilmember is not here, ....would you like to an At Large Councilmember and they say yes. Based on how much they know of you and would ask for you. But the Ward Councilmembers get a tremendous load too and the At Large - I don't know if it is quite balanced. Sometimes it seems overbalanced and sometimes it doesn't and it depends on the issue. Aquilina: .....would you like your expenses rolled into the salary is that your feeling as well? Brockwell: I have never had a problem justifying my expenses under the salary thing because I always look at it. If I am a Councilmember I am asked to go to things that I 23 normally wouldn't if I wasn't a Councilmember and if that is the case, then I feel that it is justified taking it out of my expense account but we have had cases where a Councilperson bought a computer and it wasn't justified and they are using at home or whatever, and if you were to do that, it would eliminate all questions regarding. I like the fact that I can draw when something comes in. I might not have it if it wasn't there. It is like a savings account. It is like request to go to a dinner. ........... I just got a request from a guy regarding a bass tournament and he wants me to waive the $150 fee that the parks is asking him to pay for the use of the ramp and I am saying to him that I can't ask he Parks to do that because that is part of the revenue stream but I know that some Councilmembers in the past have come up with the money out of their accounts in order to pay for that. That is a justified because it goes to Ingham Medical Heart Fund. That's a good worthy cause. Aquilina: Would you be in favor of a cafeteria plan for benefits? Brockwell. Yes. Matter of fact in my years on Council, I have never taken the health coverage until this year. I took it at the request of my wife whose health coverage had been modified and there was a greater out of pocket costs and I still felt that it was a waste of money and the first chance I get to drop it I am dropping it because I have had more problems with El my own coverage than I have had with hers and I just don't need the hassle. It is not a wise use of money. I would rather - lieu of $5,000 for the health coverage for you and your wife. You've already got coverage over here, I'll give you $1, 000 at the end of year. Yes, absolutely. Glicksman: Thank you. Brockwell: Thank you. Off to a meeting. Matter of fact, two of them. End of Interviews Francesca E. Knot 25 ...draft... CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at approximately 5:35 p.m., by Chairperson Service. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Louanne Service, Chairperson Rosemarie Aquilina Dr. Elliot B. Glicksman Margie R. McNutt COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Absent/Excused: OTHERS PRESENT: Todd A. Derby Dr. Frederick Hogan �r r-CIO - M •- 70 Cn 7-1 CrI, J Francesca Knot, Recording Secretary APPROVAL OF MINUTES: COMMISSIONER GLICKSMAN MOVED THAT THE MARCH 22 REGULAR MINUTES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF THE MARCH 20 AND MARCH 22, ELECTED OFFICIAL INTERVIEWS BE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER MCNUTT AND CARRIED 4-0. INFORMATION REGARDING FORMULA/DISTRICT COURT TUDGE TIE BAR: The printed information as provided by District Court was received by the Commission. REVISED COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS: A new version of the comparative analysis was received by the Committee as prepared by the Finance Department but it was still not in the format the Commissioner's had requested. The Commission received the revised report. GENERAL DISCUSSION/DRAFT RECOMMENDATION: The Commissioners reviewed the draft recommendation prepared by Commissioner Glicksman as initially discussed by the Commissioners at the meeting of March 22. 2 Several language changes were made by the Commissioners. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE AMOUNT FOR COUNCILMEMBERS BE CHANGED FROM $20,000 TO $14,000. The basis for the proposed change is that Council is a part time position with fringe benefits and a salary of $14,000 represents an increase that is within the 7-10% range being received by otehr City employees. THE PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL'S SALARY WOULD BE $15,500 AND THE VICE-PRESIDENT WOULD RECEIVE $14,750. THE SALARY CHANGES WOULD TAKE PLACE BEGINNING JUNE 1)1995. THE MOTION WAS SUPPORTED AND CARRIED 4-0. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT THE CITY CLERK'S SALARY BE CHANGED FROM $57,000 (contained in the First Draft) TO $58,000 BEGINNING JUNE 1,1995. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. COMMISSIONER AQUILINA MOVED THAT A SALARY BE NOTED IN THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE MAYOR. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. THE COMMISSIONERS APPROVED 4-0, THAT THE MAYOR BE THE HIGHEST PAID CITY OFFICIAL AND THAT THE SALARY BE SET AT $81,000 BEGINNING JUNE 1,1995; AND AT $85,000 BEGINNING JANUARY 1,1995. THE COMMISSIONERS RECESSED FOR APPROXIMATELY FIFTEEN MINUTES IN ORDER TO HAVE MS. KNOT MAKE THE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE CHANGES TO THE FINAL DRAFT. THE COMMISSIONERS BY MOTION OF COMMISSIONER AQUILINA AND SUPPORTED BY COMMISSIONER GLICKSMAN THAT THE RECOMMENDATION AS FINALIZED BE REPORTED OUT TO THE COUNCIL. THE MOTION CARRIED 4-0. 3 (Copy of final draft attached.) It was suggested that a sub committee be formulated in the future to study the cafeteria plan option. However, no action was taken at this time. PUBLIC COMMENT: Members of the Public were not in attendance. ADIOURN: Commissioner McNutt moved to adjourn at approximately 7:45 p.m. Commissioner Aquilina supported the motion. The motion carried 4- 0. Prepared by Francesca E. Knot Recording Secretary Approved by the Commission. SIGNED LOUANNE SERVICE, CHAIRPERSON 0 Recommendation to City Council from the Elected Officers Compensation Commission Pursuant to City Charter provisions, the Elected Officers Compensation Commission (EOCC) met in Committee during the month of March, 1995. The Commission reviewed all internal economic documents, salary comparisons and existing compensation packages of the current Office holders, Mayor, City Clerk, and members of the City Council. In addition, the Commission compared various salary structures and fringe benefit packages held by like -officers of similar communities of size and urban complexities. The Commission further heard testimony by the Mayor and members of the City Council, Finance Director, City Attorney and City Clerk. The Commission also heard comments from the public. The Commission members were in agreement that the Mayor, City Clerk, and City Council work diligently with high levels of professionalism for and on behalf of the citizens of Lansing. We collectively viewed their positions of responsibility as significant. The Commissioners were satisfied as to the work ethics and tireless efforts that our elected officers make on behalf of the citizens. After thorough review, analysis, and debate, the following recommendations are made to City Council for revision of the present salary schedules and fringe benefit packages. This Commission does have the power to review and make recommendations regarding salaries and fringe benefits of the named elected office holders. We the Commission view the Mayor as the Chief Operating Officer of the City of Lansing. This position requires the holder to manage all departments of the City, make budget recommendations, and execute all programs consistent with City Council approval. This position carries significant responsibilities. As a policy decision we the Commission subscribe to and recommend that the Mayor's Office be the highest paid office, inclusive of all department heads for the City of Lansing. Accordingly, we recommend to City Council that in the next two years changes to the compensation package of the Mayor reflect that this office, not withstanding any seniority issues to the contrary, be and continue to remain the highest paid office of City government. The Mayor shall receive the highest salary in City Government exclusive of the Judiciary. We recommend that the Mayor be compensated at $81,000.00 per year beginning June 1, 1995, and at $85.000.00 per year beginning January 1, 1996. The Commission recommends that our City Clerk be compensated similar to those officeholders of like -size cities. Therefore, we recommend that a salary revision be made so that the Clerk now be compensated at the rate of $58.000.00 per year beginning June 1, 1995. Like all officeholders for the City of Lansing the City Councilmembers have not had a salary increase since 1991. The economic conditions of today appear hopeful and the job 2 responsibilities of the City Council continue to rise as constituent needs increase. Accordingly, this Commission recommends a salary adjustment to the current salaries of the City Councilmembers to reflect a salary level of $14,000.00 per year beginning June 1, 1995. It has likewise come to the Commission's understanding that much of the detail work and assignments are undertaken by the President and Vice President of City Council. This Commission, therefore, recommends that the President receive $15, 500.00 and the Vice -President receive $14,750.00, beginning June 1, 1995. After significant review of the fringe benefit package that these elected officers are given, the Commission notes for the record that further flexibility in these packages should be a goal of City government. The committee noted for the record a Fringe Benefit Package has existed and recommends no change at this time. However, should the City opt for a cafeteria plan that the Mayor and the City Council be given the opportunity to opt into the plan. The Commission recommends that the expense accounts for these elected officials remain unchanged. These recommendations were based on thorough study and exchanges of thought among and between the Commissioners and among and between the Office holders and Advisors who appeared before the Commission. Q We the members of the Elected Officers Compensation Commission, respectfully submit these recommendations. iouanne Service, Chair Todd Derby Frederick Hogan Dated: March 27, 1995 EG:fk Rosemarie Aq ' ' a Elliot Glicks an G�v Margie McNutt M