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Home My WebLink AboutCouncil Charter Commission Conference on Charter - 082478 C04 September 15, 1978 Honorable Gerald Graves, Mayor Honorable Theo Fulton, Clerk Honorable Members of Council Honorable City Attorney ,,Members of the Charter Commission Dear Friends: Attached is a copy of the transcript of the Conference on the newly adopted Lansing City Charter, held Aug!tst 24, 1978. ✓ I apologize for our poor antiquated typewriter, which in reading the transcript you will note some irregularities in type. Althov.:�,h it been overworked for the past three years, it served the Charter:1 Commission well. Personally I feel that it deserves to be retired with commendation. This is about my last official act as Secretary to the Charter Comm- ission and I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for the assistance and cooperation of your good offices and staff during the past three years. I have worked for several large organizations, but none can boast of the congeniality of officers and personnel as can the fine people of Lansing's City offices. It was a privilege and a pleasure to share a small corner of your world for the past three years. Sincerely, For the Charter Commission: Dorothy Treski-7 Secretary CHARTER COMMISSION CONFERENCE' WITH LANSING CITY OFFICIALS On Thursday, August 24, 1978, members of the Lansing Charter Commission and the elected officials of the City of Lansing met in Council Chambers, 10th floor, Lansing City Hall, at 7:00 p. m. , for the purpose of discussing the newly adopte(I Lansing City Charter, which had been approved by the. Lansing electorate on August 8, 1978, and which is to be filed with the Secretary of State and the County Clerk on August 6, 1978, to become effective August q. , 1978. PRESENT: Honorable Gerald Graves, Mayor of the City of Lansing; Theo Fulton, Clerk of the City of Lansing; Stephen Sawyer, City Attorney; Mr. Dwaihy, Deputy City Attorney; Council members Adado, Baker, Blair, Gunther, and Hull; Charter Commissioners Baker, Holmes, McKesson, Sliker, Stebbins, Walsh and Zimmerman; Thomas Donnellan, Legal Consultant to the Commission and Dorothy Treska, Secretary to the Charter Commission. Numerous department heads, heads of agencies and members of boards, as well as several interested citizens also attended as spectators. Mr. Louis Adado, Mayor Pro Tem, ch=kired the meeting and stated that the reason for the meeting was to help familiarize the Lansing City Council, the Mayor, the City Attorney and the Department heads with the thinking of the Charter Commissioners when they drafted- the new Charter. He stated that the City Clerk planned to file the Charter Document with the Secretary of State on or about September 6th, and it would take effect on September 8th. He felt that this would cut their research into the Charter and the time that they would have to react to the new Charter pretty close. He stated that they would go over the Charter, pretty closely, and not philosophize nor would they state what they thought the Charter should have been. The Charter is adopted. It has been accepted by the People Of Lansing and we will live by what the Charter states we shall live by for the next ten years, when the Charter revision question will again be placed before the voters of Lansing, Mr. Adado introduced Thomas Walsh, Chairperson of the Charter Commission, and requested that he introcluce the Charter Commissioners and staff. Mr. Adado stated that this type of meeting was unusual in that he had never chaired a meeting in which he had gone over a charter. He introduced the Honorable Gerald Graves, Mayor of the City of Lansing for an opening state- ment and then stated he would have the City Attorney go over the Charter. Mayor Graves stated that he would look forward to the actual separation of powers that haven't existed for a long time. We think this will bring about a better operation of governme'nt.. In the separation, for the change over, we have a number of committees and sub-committees to work on the restructuring of government, the reorganization, rules for procedure, how we will handle the various matters of an executive committee that has come to us on a daily basis. Specifically in working on the basic forms that when matters are sent to the City Council they will have the justification that comes with them for the passage of an itern,including controversial issues, the disadvantaged, Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 2 So we hope to have our re-organization before the Council before the deadline of January 31, 1979. We hope to have our procedures with various departments to follow before the newly adopted Charter takes effect, Meantime the sub- committees will continue to work. We will advise the various departments that we will be setting up coordinating committees to let everything to do, for ' example, with transportation, to be held into a committee. We would invite tri-county in to have a representative, Capitol Transit Authority, Planning Department, Police, Fire, anybody that has any concern. Transportation covers more than just busses and airplanes. It also includes the travel on the street, ambulances, police cars, etc. So on the major subjects we will be setting up those committees to coordinate various activities and come up with the best reports possible. From those reports we will be able to trans- mit various proposals for the City Council. If we don't agree with them we hope to find a solution whereby the input can `)e changed and have a major issue and an alternative. We look forward to this matter so that the depart- ment heads will not be answering to the Council, to the Board, and to the Mayor's, office all combined. I think it is going to be a direct benefit to each department head involved and I look forward to this Charter going into operation. Mr. Adado stated that he had asked the Chairperson of the Charter Commission, Thomas Walsh, if he would like to make a statement and he indicated he would so at this time, Tom Walsh. Mr. Walsh thanked the Chairperson and requested to know if everybody had copies of the material prepared by Thomas Donnellan, Legal Consultant to the Charter Commission, which had been sent to all a week ago or so. He stated that he hoped that this meeting would touch on these item and that Mr. Zimmerman had another six or seven items he would like to bring to their attention. He stated that after they had been meeting as a Charter Commission for two.or three months, they discovered that each of them in their own way had been campaigning on a platform which had said, we need a city chief executive who is in charge of day-to-day operation, provide leadership and coordination, and be held responsible for either the good or the bad that happens in City government. And, a council that basically sets policy and adopt ordinances. Having mace that basic decision, we then tried to anticipate what the model would look like and then we wrote the language accordingly. I would suggest that one of the changes that Council will face, in general, C> is that with the taking effect of the new Charter, I would assume that most of the agenda items that Council will be receiving for its agenda, will instead 1.1 t) ID of being reports of Council Committees will be reports of the Mayor arising from a City Department with the written recommendations of that Board attached to them with whatever comments the Mayor chooses to make. Our belief is that most issues, or policy decisions will either arise in or involve a given city department. Certainly not all of th,_,m. the Council will handle many ol,her things. But basically, if it doesn't arise there, I presume Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 3 if a question comes up from a Councilmember or citizen comments, that the question will be referred to a department to gather facts, develop a proposal, ascertain the consequences and the cost of it. What we have said, and there was a great deal of discussion about citizen boards under a chancre from the old system from administrative boards. We think the proposal here will give citizens on advisory committees a greater impact in the important areas where they can best contribute. We saw those in the area of planning and evaluation. Because what the Charter says is when a departmental proposal requires Council action it shall first go to the citizen advisory committee for a written recomm- enclation. It then goes to the Mayor who then adds whatever he likes to add and then submits it to the Council. I think the importance of the citizen advisory will be estatlished the first time the Council either, or the Mayor, kicks back a recommendation or a report because it does not have the citizen advisory committee's written reaction attached `o it. Anyway. the other thing I would just touch on as opening here is, what happens when things get to Council. We have talked at great length, for a couple of years and with man of you i� y individually. The feeling is that Lansing. should not be added to the four cities in the country who have a full-time city council and that this ought to be a part- time job. As a result the Charter says that the Council shall simply not have standing committees that parallel city departments. You can have committees. The Charter encourages ad hoc committees. If I had to guess, I would persume In that Council, as the change over starts, would be doing a good bit of discussing with the Mayor and his staff at a committee of the whole level. Mr. Donnellan and I talked with the Mayor earlier and I said to him that one element of the success, or the smooth working of the government, under the new charter, will be the effectiveness with which city departments prepare proposals that ulti- mately reach the Council in terms of describing in sufficient detail what the proposal is, what it costs, why it is and following with other pages, the back- ground. So that Council in many routine things should not need to spend a Ln lot of time, appoint an ad hoc committee, if there are obvious things and the background is made. available to them, which I hope at least these will go smoothly without either a lot of delay or a lot of involvement of councilm ember Is time. With that as the sort of brief overview of the chancre of the form of government 1 would yield the floor and suggest that among other thinars that we might go down Mr. Donnellan's list. I answer all the easy questions and Do-nnellan takes the hard ones and several of theCommission members are hear as we falter or they have particular areas of expertise, if you would like to call on them. Mr. A(-'ado thanked Mr. Walsh and stated that they hac� received the Commission bill on the printing and distribution and it would be on Moagendaay's agenda for the C transfer of funds to take care of the Charter. Mr. Adado turned the meeting over to Mr. Sawyer. City Attorney. and stated that he was the one who would have to intcrpr,-4 the Charter so he nlio'ht as well get the questions ou+. ,onference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 4 Mr. Sawyer stated that he had not come prepared to make a presentation, rather to listen to one and listen to the thoughts of the Commission who had put so much work and thought into this document. He stated that questions are already arising, under this Charter, yet to come into effect. I feel that it would be worthwhile for me , briefly, to cover a few questions which have already been posed to me. Make a few observations on it and then do some serious listening to Mr. Donnellan and others who have worked with this charter, at this point, much more than I have. The biggest change, that is apparent throughout the Charter, and which has already been emphasized, appears the depth of allocation of administrative and executive duties the mayor and department head-s serving the mayor be responsible to the mayor, An(' the clear designation of Council's duties, with certain exceptions set up here anc' there, very specific ones, are to be an important policy making role. Of course that is simply said but much more difficult to interpret. The line between policy and administration often becomes a very soggy one when you get down to specifics. One thing of great interest to me, particularly in the areas of contracting. The Charter Commission elected to place far fewer Charter restrictions on contracts. Instead leaving a definite mandate, it would seem, to Council to develope by ordinance a procedure for purchasing services and goods. Pro- cedures for purchase and sale of real property and at the same point, except in the case of the sale of real property, and the approval of collective bargan- ing contract, not mandating at least by Charter that Council aprove each contract that is made. To my mind that led to an interpretation that at least absent any other require- ment right now and assuming that funds necessary were approoriated. Which of course is within Council's sole power to do. The power to enter into a contract is not necessary subject 'to Council's approval. But certainly is subject to much control by Council through the establishment of ordinances, or the amendment of ordinances which already exist, setting up standards for purchasing, etc. I guess to me it would be important to have the thoughts of the Charter Cor--- ission on that, particularly their attorney. Mr. Walsh stated that the Commissioners caucused at dinner, prior to the meeting, just so he would have a current feeling and be able to allocate so; other input here. We clon't proport to have all of the answers. You are qL right,. one of the things the Charter does is leave open the options for the City's elected officials. One of these is in the areas of contracts. Mr. D( I am sure will tell you, and I will stop and let him do it, that this is an arc there are a number of areas that I hope we will touch on just to jog peoples ories tonight, in which Council Should he adoptin!r an ordinance to establisl pattern at an early date. Ordinances can ')(I by the legislative hociv as ` Conference ouCharter August 24, 1978 Page 5 well as established. Ioanumber of areas we think this is a good thin� and this is what we tried to dn. With that I will give it to Tom /I}nnoe}lao>. ~ Mr. D000ellao stated, as Mr. Walsh indicated, we did talk about some of these ' things over dinner and the purpose of the Charter Commission being here is drawing upon their experiences and their discussions to try to indicate toyou what their intent was. This particular issue, I recall, was di000ao8d, But I don't have uopecific recollection of just what the discussion was. The general recollection that I have as to what was discussed among the Charter Commissioners, was that during the deliberations in 1978, an issue came to the Wayne County Circoit Court arising out of the Detroit Charter. And because of some very specific language irzthe Detroit Charter that is not in this Charter, there was a roI|ngbJ' Judge Colombo that on ordinance passed bythe Detroit City� Council,, providing that expenditures for contracts over S5, 000bud to go to the Council for approval, was beyond the power of the Council to enact. They couldn't enact any such ordinance. So the Detroit City Council pot a Charter amendment nu the ballot to make it clear that they had such power. The Detroit Charter Cnruzuiosioo members indicated to us, in o meeting with tbecu, that they never had any such intent as Judge Coluz0bo read into it. The attitor�e of the Lansing Charter Commissioners, at least in ouJ/ rrooIleotion, that they wanted to .allow the Council tVhave discretion r) a i that area'. So (Ino/t disagree with anytb that you indicated' with your tentative interpretation of that. Mr. Walsh - Stove (BovvJrer) Without getting into the middle of what at oor point may be a conflict, let me note that there is a parallel issue that is in Charter, that deals with the right of the Mayor to transfer funds within a departments budget, oy to a limit of $5, 000 or 15% of the budget of the itec into vYbicbthe transfer would be made. This we did because of the, vveIl. \ The goal in doing that was to try to cut down onsmall routine changes that vvonId have to come back to council that really vrethought ought to be adozi istrative matters that could be simply p`, done, reported to Council, and the City move on vvitboo± the paper work and time consumption that comes. We didn't try to tell the City what kind of ordinance. Itbiok we would hope that when the City adopts one it would adopt one with some flexibility in it. Some opportunity for the ioititative of the Mayor. Bringing the matter before Council noh/ at those points in the process where it is really significant that they he before Council. I guess what T uou saying is that bJ/'definitino something 8 less than every step along the way, vvbiCbIunderstand is the way itis now. Mr. .Adado - 8uzuariziug what goes onbere' fur our non' -legal minds, the Mayorbaa the authority to execute contracts under this Charter with limits set bJ/ the Council bJ/ ordinance if they oo desire. Mr. Walsh - Yes. I would think that this is one of the early ordinances that Council would want to be dealing with the City Attorney. Mr. Sawyer - It might be appropriate to just run through this Charter and point out what it requires , Mr. I)onneDan pointed out ffir ooa�ororc� on list vvhicbIaureevvitheotire]�r 7`hrrr are certain } ' ' . r �an�rs which I nno sure many Conference on Charter August 24, 19-- Page 6 of you have already noted, that are perhaps worth skimming quickly. The first change is the qualifications for elected office. , Up until this poin we have had a requirement Q. What section? Mr. Sawyer - Going to 2-102 on page 2. Our prior charter had qualifications not only for elective office but for appointive officials as well. Certain of them, although somewhat ambiguous, in some respects, both a year of residency and a year as a qualified elector, i. e. , a registered voter of the city. There is a change that has been made in that. First of all, appointive officials have really been eliminated in the requirement and elective officials clearly have only the requirement that they be a resident only a year prior and that they be a registered elector at the time they run. That is the change that should be noted for all people who are running for office. Donnellan - Let me point out one twist on that. No one is required to be a resident for a year prior to filing. That they are only required, according to the language, a year prior to taking the office. So someone who wishes to be appointed to a vacancN, has to have been a resident for a year, but anyone who is filing for an office only has to have been a resident for five or six months, according to the filing date. Mr. Sawyer - That is correct. They use the word "holding office" rather than running or candidate for office in that case. In connection with that, and I don't have the section number at the tip of my fingers. If someone should cease to be a resident , there is a provision for removal from office and replacement, including elected officials . further on in the Charter. Skipping to Section 2-104, on the same page. You notice that we now have a elected officers compensation commission. The Charter permits the conti't of that but requires an amendment to the ordinance to allow a procedure to instituted for calling the Compensation Commission together at a time wher. Council determines. That of course is probably not the most important this the list of priorities, but assuming that compensation may now then be revi it probably should be done. Mr. Baker - It seems like on points 2 and 3, are somewhat contradictory i it says, "it may continue to determine compensation. " and that, ''it can be amended to provide a procedure for calling compensation commissions together. And then in . 3 it says, "that we can alter any procedure. " I would assume that means that the Compensation Commission can be abolished, Mr. Saywye - That is right. The language there is ''may" that is the operative word. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 7 Commissioner Zimmerman - We didn't want you to be tied in forever. Councilperspn Baker So what that says then is that City Council can continue to ffierate under the Compensation Commission, that can meet from time to time if Council should determine, or that the Commission can be abolished and ''the Council, at such time as it determines, can set its own rate of pay. Or we could have the Commission operate for one group of elected officials and not for all. Is that true? Mr. Donnellan - Mr. Baker. What the State Statute says is that in lieu of any Charter provision existing on the effective date of the statute, in lieu of that a City Council can adopt this ordinance. it doesn't exactly say this ordinance, but it spells it out in some detail. An then it says, toward the bottom, a year after doing so, the City can change the procedure by Charter amendment or by Charter revision and it has no limitation on how you amend it to. So this Charter Revision says that you amend it to whatever the Council wants. Mr. Baker - T iUher ,w.ords, the Council could set the pay scale for all elected officials . Mr. Donnellan - Right. I would have a lot of problems though . . .I would have no problem with having a different method of determining the pay of mayor and clerk as opposed to the council. But I have a lot of difficulty of distinguishing between one councilperson and the other, based on the fact that one is elected at large and one is elected by ward. That would give me a lot of difficulty. I don't know what the answer would be right now, but I would suspect that you couldn't distinguish between council people based on how they are elected. Mr. Baker -My question was not directed at that; that is a good point. The second one would be then that Council pass an ordinance, hypothetically, that says, "Council shall set its own salaries but the elected officials compensations commission shall set the salaries of the Mayor and the Clerk. " Mr. Donnellan - Or visa versa. Mr. Baker - That's possible, but I just wanted to see what the limits are. Mr. Donnellan - 1he intention is to have no limits. I don't know exactly how the Attorney General's office will come down on this because they basically have taken the position that they would either like it to be a dollar amount spelled out in the Charter or the Compensation Commission. But, the legis- lature wrote the statute and I think they are stud: with the language in the statute, which allows Charter Commissions to set a new ball game, which is what this does. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 8 Mr. Zimmerman - I think our intent too, is I' think there may be some other method by some state law that may come about in the future, or there may be some method of compensation coming up in the future and we didn't want to tie the city elected officials to the compensation commission for everlasting. Q. How about appointing the members -of the compensation commission. Mr. Donnellan - The statute spells' out the ordinance that you did adopt. It is seven, each serving seven year staggered terms and they can only meet for no longer than for a span of 45 days - 15 days during the span, 45 days every other odd year. Mr. Baker - But the appointment of it is still the Mayor? Mr. Donnellan - Mayor appoint, Council confirm. Mr. Zimmerman - The reason we amended that to call it the compensation commission to me, they expressed grave concern when they met with us, that they have no direction. They wanted to have that ordinance amended so that at least they could have some direction. I think it is very vague in the state statute - every two years. They wanted to have something in there to say, "We want to know when we are going to be called on,a March, or whatever." They felt that was an omission in the ordinance that you adopted before.* Mr. Saywer- Going on. The nomination to run by office remains by petition signed by one or two percent of the registered electors, either city wide if it is a city wide elective office, or in the particular ward. You should note that the wards remain as they are although gh subject to revision by the election commission within a short time after the dicennial census comes out. With the mandate that they be kept compact, contiguous and not gerrymandered all over. Q. While you are on that section. Would it be worthwhile to point out a concern I wanted to point out to you on Section 2-105 Bonding ofOfficers. The point I wanted to make is perhaps all city officers, that handle funds, today are not bonded. There is a requirement here that those officers be bonded and there may be other officers that don't necessarily handle funds but because of the way that they are dealing with monies, the City Council may feel that they should be bonded. That is a change, Mr. Sawyer - Going on to Chapter 3. What happens when people are absent. We will have a President and Vice-President of Council in the future in lieu of a Mayor Pro Tem. Discussion on how they were going through the Charter. Councilperson Baker stated that he had a question. Conference ouCharter ' AOguGt24' 1978 Page 9, Proposal 2-204. 3 Method of Nomination Baker - It Gays in . 2 - Voters of the ward shall be signed by not more than 3 percent of persons registered to vote,iuthe ward io which the election is to be held. It doesn't say as of what date. There is anuozber of electors. It probably isn't important except in point . 3, for at-large, it says, //per- cezzt of the electors registered on the date of the most recent general elootinzz' // It doesn't specify for wards. Does that mean number of electors in the last election, or ten years ago, or the day the nominating petitions were filed, or what? Walsh - I am sure the parallel would continue and it would be the previous election Dick. You are right, our language wasn't parallel, Iguess. I}onoclIuo - It is covered by the definition section, so the specific is redundant. Under definitions - "Electors means persons registered to vote in the city. /` Percentages of electors shall be determined as of the most recent election. This is on Page l, under //I)efioitinoo//. ' Mr. Sawyer - Alright. Continuing on, as I was saying, we will now have a President and Vice President of Council, which we will get into alittle later izzthe selection techniques. But it is important to note that the President will replace the Mayor when be is unable to perform duties of office or is obGeot. Proposul2-3O2 Forfeiture and Removal From Office, for cause. The City Coaocil is mandated to declare the forfeiture of any elective officer or appointee for cause. Now going down to sub-section . 2' they define what \ ``cause" is. That is when they look, at any*. time, the qualifications required bJ, the Charter, vvbicb is p/but I referred to before. For instance, if an elective Iofficer should cease to be a resident, or your City Engineer - not have qualifi- cations of professional engineer, if allow my Bar membership to lapse or something of that sort. Number . 2 is convicted of a felony while holding the office or appointment, or violates any provision of the Charter specifically, punishable bJ' forfeiture. Mr. Baker requested ao example nfthese. Mr. I}onoelIau - An example of the provision of the Charter punishable by fbrYeitore would be aozoeooc who becomes ineligible for office, perhaps, under 2-103. Vye brought this op at the last part of the Charter deliberations and there was a specific section we had in mind. Section 2-301 Absence From Office. That's the key one. That is a provision of the Charter punishable b]/ forfeiture. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 10 Page 3, 2-301. That if someone is absent for more than 60 days, and the Council at a particular meeting after the 60 days has elapsed, doesn't waive it, that becomes a situation punishable by forfeiture. Let me make one other distinction. There was an attempt here to distinguish between removel for cause and the concept of forfeiture. And the concept of forfeiture is similar to language that is found in various statutes and charters that says, ''If such- and-such happens, the office shall be vacant. " The problem with putting it that way is who says the office is vacant. The Circuit Court, City Council, the Mayor. This puts the responsibility for declaring a fact. Somebody leaves the state, says they are leaving the state, all that is necessary is to declare the fact. There is no real factual dispute in many cases. Sometimes there might be a factual dispute. Somebody has to say so and the purpose of this language is to allow the Council to say so, subject to review by the Circuit Court. Rather than to have everybody wandering around saying, "Is it vacant? " "Isn't it vacant? ''. "Do we have to go to Circuit Court? " "Do we have to file an action? ". "What shall we do, whose responsibility is it? " The responsibility is the Councils. Baker - What constitutes the performance- of the office? Donnellan - That might be a subject of dispute. What constitutes the performance of the office. But complete absence would be clear. Someone who is ill and is in and out of the hospital and stops down at City Council every once in a while, but not at any council meetings, I'm talking about a Council person.. An inability to attend any of the Council meetings. Maybe there might be a question of facto. Maybe there is something to discuss. I think a clear case is just to have a total absence from the City. That would be a clear case. Baker - I guess I am thinking of unclear cases. Not answering constituent calls and things like that. Adado - I think if a Council person neglects to answer constituent calls, it won't be too long and there will be recall ballots and recall petitions around. Baker - The answer is those who don't attend the meetings.. Baker - It calls for attending the meetings. The meetings are very clear. If you miss 60 consecutive days, then the Council has the authority to dec that office vacant or to extend the time. Donnellan - The little twist here is if the Council does nothing, then the c is forfeited. Ar'ado - After the 60th day. Donnellan - Right. The Council has to take affirmative action to continu( Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 11 Donnellan It is impossible to, by Charter, to-regulate and make sure a city runs efficiently. Dearborn, in reviewing a number of city charters, Dearborn had one of the best, clearest provisions for dealing with incompas ty in office of almost any city charter. But they chose not to utilize it. They decided to ignore it because of the political issues involved. As far as having a clear procedure to follow, Dearborn had one of the best provisions of any of the city charters I have come across. They just chose not to use it. Sawyer - In the case of Mayoral vacancy, through resignation, ect. , the President of Council takes over until the next November general election which can be held to fill the office. Now that may or may not be the first November election to happen since in certain cases it could conceivably be close enough to November so you could not put the particular candidacy on that ballot. That is the permanent absence. If the President of Council, due to whatever, should decline. In that case the Council by majority vote will elect someone else to take the mayors place. Temporary absence, he automatically fills in for the Mayor in his absence. However, as far as the full duties of the mayor's office, in the case of a more permanent absence, Council may request by vote that the President of Council take over the full duties of the mayor's office as a full-time mayor. Presumably that would include an increase in pay and other requirements I.think that is only invisioned in an extreme absence or long absence. That could continue, even if Council did vote it, until the mayor resumes office or until the �i Council decides to terminate him. So that can't be used to sort of replace the mayor against his will if he is there to take office. In the case of Council members. If a Council member should resign or become incapacitated or whatever. Council appoints a replacement to fill a gap until the next election. Mr. Zimmerman - Until the next November. Mr. Sawyer - That's correct. Next November or general election. Skipping to Petitions for Initiative and Referendum, should note that it takes five percent of the registered electors signatures, which is a decrease require- ment. It should also be noted that, if anybody should ask you, that the five per- cent of the registered electorate would have to be signed within a 90 day period. The signatures would not be allowed to be counted if they should drag out beyond 90 days, in collecting them. Mr. Baker - Two questions. It says here that if the City Clerk returns the petition which lacks sifficient signatures or is otherwise improper, they have ten days to file supplemental petition papers. During that additional ten -- - In other words, say you had to have 10, 000 signatures for something - 4, 000. And you showed up with 3. 500, knowing that you were short. Mr. Hull - It won't work that way. ` Conference on Chart Auguot24' 1878 Pagel2 Baker - No, it says if she should find that they were insufficient. So then you are given another ten days to collect those. Do the ones that are then 90 days old, after the IO days extension, are those valid or not? ' Mr. Sawyer - I vvVnld be interested in the Charter Commission's observations on this, I guess coboe would be originally that there is an absolute mandate that signatures be not more than SU days old at the time. When you are talking GupplenuenduIe' I woulcl think, though don't say this as an opinion or with absolute certainty' that that might cover the case vvberc there are other signatures on petitions have not been submitted. Mr. -DonoeIlazz - Sub-section . 4 saJro' "Signatures obtained more than 90 days before the petition is filed with the Clerk shall not be counted. '/ Ivvoold feel that that would be the cut-off. That the filing vvnuId determine whether they are too old. Mr. Baker - Then they would be good when filed? Mr. D000elIao - If they are good when filed then they would be good in the next ten days, would be oz}' reading of it. ' Mr. Baker - {}. K. So in effect you are given 90 days plus aootherl0 days? Because we came up short and you get anotlz*rIO days. Mr, AdadV - When you say short Dick, you are saying short after the Clerk goes through. They filed the required signatures and they found that they are ten short. Theo, what about the State Law, is there anything that . . . . Miss IrnItoo - Now I alvvaJ/a count the petitions the day they bring them into file. I mlvvaJ/s check the number. Of course I have to go through then to check if they are valid signatures or not. I aI\va3/s check that very day when they file their petitions whether they have got enough. Mr. .Adado - So you 000ld/t intentionally file 3' 500when 3, 700 were required and then go back for lO days. But if there is a deficiency after she checks them for validity or if there is a deficiency in the wording of it, is that what that ten days isfor? Discussion on the intent not being to give candidates an additional ten du3ra. B8r, I}onoellao - One, tbere' is nothing inconsistent with state statute, at least from ouJr reading. Secoodly, if somebody really wants to go to court on this. The tendency of the Court is to uphold, if it is really possible to uphold the citizen action - - - like for instance two years ago, when we had some of the tax questions . There was some serious problems with signatures. The court upheld the right to put it on the ballot. So the reading most favorable of the will ofthe people or the ohiIit}r of the people to decide would probably be the readio� that the court-would give it. Conference on Char August 24, 1978 Page 13 Mr. Baker - A more serious question, I think that is serious also. A more serious question is - - - this section only appears to cover ordinances. This Council approves a great number of projects by resolution. This preclude the citizens from initiating a referendum. Stop a project or something like that by referendum? Because it only says ordinances. Mr. Donnellan - Let me give you two answers. One, yes. Two - you can ask the City Attorney for a 20 page opinion, which he could easily put together because there is that much discussion on cases, of when something was im- properly categorized of - - or a resolution when it should have been an ordinance. One of them came up against the Cityof Lansing, wasn't that Parr against Fulton. Anyway it involved the question of whether something shoulrl have been an ord- inance or resolution. Mr. Zimmerman - I can give you an example. When I was Redevelopment Director, as I can recall, the Council adopted under a resolution and it dealt with the Master Plan for redevelopment. It was one d the court cases we had where in that case they said normal zoning issues are by ordinance so you can't adopt a urban renewal master plan by resolution. I think regardless of the outcome, I think what Tom (Donnellan) is saying, there is several court cases on whether or not a person has a right to court cases because of the issue involved. Whether it is an ordinance or resolution. Mr. Ba ker - But that is assuming, if that is understanding you correctly, that they should have passed it by ordinance but passed it by resolution and therefore made,an error. What I am talking about - 496 for instance. If we were to build 497 a North-South route. And Council can build that road by resolution. And what if a great number of residents were unhappy with 497. This Charter does not provide any way that they can hold a referendum on that by the vote of the people to decide if in fact 497 should be built or not. Mr. Walsh - I don't think that is quite true, Dick. Mr. Baker - That is what I'm asking. Mr. Walsh - O. K. The referendum, which is a historical right, going back to your early New England days. The purpose of it is to file a petition within 30 days before the ordinance takes effect for a citizen vote on whether or not the ordinance should be effective. Now, if filer! within 30 days the effect of the ordinance is suspended until you have had the election. Now if you do some- thing by resolution that citizens don't like, they can, with the assistance of the City Attorney's office probably, or at least a review, they can write their own ordinance and circulate petitions on initiative an(-' call an election . ' Conference noCharter AugnGt24, 1978 Pagel4 Mr. DonnellaD - For example. It is 'oot a matter of state law that only the Council can expend roouoJ7. Even if you provide u procedure for citizen vote on an ordizzooCc or citizen initiative for the spending of ruoueJr' there are cases that YvnoId indicate that that would just be contrary to the Bonze Rules Cities Act. Only the Council can expend money. Mr. Baker - What you are saying is that if a resolution is passed by Council, an initiative could be filed n/biob would encozopuS an ordinance which specifically repealed that resolution. Mr. Dounallan - Or declared it to be illegal. Declared such action to be contrary to the ordinance. And the more practical way to handle is by recall. There are recalls all over the state dealing with things that were done b)rcouncil people which were in the nature of resolutions. Mr' Baker - What if the Council people were good people, they were juatmia- guided? Mr. DoouelIau - I think many of the Conodil people who were recalled were very good people. Mr. Baker - That's vvbv I say initiative may be better than a recall. Thank you. Mr. Sawyer - If you would like to just skip on. The bottom of 3' Section 2-400- Spec1al Elections, Please note that special city elections should be held by call or resolution of city council with at least 50days advance notice. However, for filling vacancies on Council and Mayor, at least for the election itself, it designates the general election will bethe election we will use in every case except for one and that is in the event that Council should be unable to agree on an appointment to fill vacancy until the next general election. In which case, Sub-section . 4 of that particular obuoter' provides for the election 000uzoiGsiVzz to schedule a special election to elect the substitute. I gather also, in effect, it sets your time range for your general election when it says that,J'Uo can't have ageoeraI election to fill your vacancy unless the vacancy occurred at least six months prior to that. So that is your time frame for filling it on the general election. Council may also, by a majority vote - a ƒlve member vote, submit any ordinance to the electorate in an election tnvote on. That may be worthwhile to note. The Charter , of course ' can be amended by u noa'nrit}' of the voters. Going to .Article 3 - on the legislative branch. It specifically provides for legislative power, of course. invested iu Council and continues to state an eight council roenuher organization. If provides for your orgoinrationol meeting. Your first regular meeting in January and at that time, at least after this whole pz`ucces is irupIeoorofpd. you will select your President and Vice President. The Clerk will preside at the oppnio(r of the nzeetioa and until ` Conference on Charter August 24' 1978 ]Pagel5 ' the President is selected. The President of Council is designated as the pre- siding offiCer. You should also note that the President of Council also appoints ' all standing committee members rather than the Mayor, as in the past. VVbicb is aObaogo. Mr. Zizoozerroao - I would like to mention there too, that you mentioned the first regular meeting. That is their first organizational roeeting. But once the Charter becomes filed and is effective, you immediately start with the process of election of the President and Vice President of the Council. Mr. Sawyer - Ibav* discussed that matter with Mr. Z)onoellaoaod other members of the Commission, and though there is a provision that it cells for the continuation of city officers in their offices, or equivalent offices, it was pointed out to me , and I think with some merit, that the President is less likely to be considered an equivalent office than it is bcoaooc it specifically provides here that the President presides at a meeting vvbicb is a dot}' that was never incumbent upon the office of Mayor Pro Tem. The Mayor PrVJczu, if you viewed it in that regard' would be more similar to that now Vice President, J. e. , the person who will preside in the absence of the normal presiding officer. Additionally, it should be pointed out that the office of President of Council has committee appointment power, vvbiob does not reside with the Mayor Irrn Ieou' at least under the Charter. Mr. Zizuroerzuao - Right along with that is the committee appointments because further on we will get in here is that the committee appointments don't stand as they bave in the past. Mr. Sawyer - That's correct. The C000cil..n/itbpovvers to establish special or ad hoc moonrnitteee, vrhi6bio almost an inherent power of any council. It can also establish any other committees it'deems appropriate. There are, as pointed out in the opening here, some restrictions on that however, and that is that those ooruozittne: are not administrative and that they are not tnparallel the administrative structure of government. Mr. Baker - What is the test of if it parallels the administrative structure of government of the city? Mr. Sawyer - I think what we would have to consider is the departmental parallel should be the measure of that. For instance. A parks committee for parks. It would just restrict department bJ' department parallel organizations. Mr. Baker - What if you have a planning committee that hears both from both Planning and Community Development? Is that Parallel? Mr. Ziozzorrcuao - Is that bv state law? Mr. Sawyer - The Planning Board is by state law, not the Planning [oozruittec, Conference on Charter August' 24, 1978 Page 16 Mr. Baker If you have a Planning Committee that handles Community Development and Planning issues ? Mr. Sawyer - Frankly, I consider this-to some extent to be a marginally enforceable section of the Charter. It is just a blatent parallism. To the extent that you could take it to court and get somebody to enforce it, I r1oubt that it would be worth ( oing. Mr. Baker - Sorry. We are on the same track. I agree. Mr. Sawyer - The intent is clear that Council committee structure is not tc be getting involved in the administrative affairs of the City, and I am sure in my own mind that this is the intent of that provision. As well as the one right before it, that they won't have administrative powers. Mr. Zimmerman - The only reason for that intent was that it wouldn't be involved in administrative things and if you have committees like the Parks and Recreation, and you have a Parks and Recreation Department, that is obviously going into an administrative parallel. Mr. Donnellan - I don't really disagree with the City Attorney, but if a problem arose along those lines, that would not be the only section of the Charter that was being violated. There would probably be a group of sections being violated together and then perhaps it would be worth while going to court over it. Such as giving directions to department heads, and saying, "You are going to hold onto that and you are not going to do this. " In that situation it would be worth while to go to circuit court and get a resolution on it. But I would agree, if there is just a dispute as to whether one committee is too close in parallel to a department then it would be true, it wouldn't be worth trying to fiddle around with it. Mr. Baker - Plus, whose going to enforce it? Mr. Donnellan - Circuit judge. Mr. Blair - But haven't judges stayed away from meddling into the other branches of governments business? Mr. Donnellan - Not the judges I've seen, Mr. Sawyer - Going on to the President of Council. He does appoint both the Chairperson and the members of all Council Committees, be they special or standing. Going on to the Section titled Rules, it. says, "you shall by resolution adopt rules of procedure". I think it is important to note that you will have to move quick]v to revise vour i-ules of procedure to rcf,leet Some ot, Illese. chaliffes. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 17 (Mr. Sawyer continues) That shouldn't be too difficult to do, but it is something that you should attempt to do, including deciding what standing committees you want for yourselves, like Rules, some revisions in the agenda which now require time for the Mayor to speak and also to be answered questions by Council and the public, which aren't in there now. Mr. Hull - Mr. Sawyer, Idon't believe it will be necessary to specify in our Rules what standing committees we will have. Mr. Donnellan - Standing committees generally are spelled out in the rules. Mr. Walsh - I would, think so. Mr. Sawyer - It isn't , strictly speaking, necessary that you have a rule right now that does establish, Mr. Hull, there may be some changes necessary in that rule in light of the committee structure in the mandate of the Charter. Though it does not require here that you establish them by rule I guess you can establish each committee by resolution. ' Mr. Hull - The rule could simply say, "Such standing committees as may be appropriate, shall be established by resolution. " Mr. Sawyer - That is correct. Certainly Council has great leeway in what it chooses to do in terms of its own Rules of Procedure. Mr. Walsh - I would think that the Council President might well have, inherently, the power to appoint an ad hoc committee, but the standing committee would be one almost by definition, one that would have an informal action of the Council in establishing it. Whether by resolution or rules, I don't think it matters. Mr. Donnellan - Rules are adopted by resolution. Mr. Sawyer - As I noted, there is required by the Charter, for the rules to provide for time for the Mayor to be heard and 'a time for theMayor to respond to questions and so you will have to put that in your rules additionally as to the directions to the City Clerk for the agenda and make it public. You already have that in your rules. Mr. Baker - What governs as to who puts what on the agenda? Who has the power to put something on the agenda. Mr. Sawyer - That's really a matter of your own rule making. Though each elected representative., is held under general common law to have an inherent right to bring motions to the body, and things of that sort. �n Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 18 Mr. Baker But we have had problems that people have told me about before. Like a department head putting a resolution on. Mr. Zimmerman - We talked about that within our meetings, and again, I experienced it too. I think our intent was that there have been situations that we observed in the past, where a department had put something on the agenda, the Mayor had put something on the agenda and individual council person had put something on the agenda, and that is why we put in there point . 2, "The Rules shall direct the City Clerk to prepare the agenda. " The intent that we had was that the Council will set up some rules that will be guidelines as to how the agenda will be prepared. Mr. Walsh - As an aside, and I don't think you were here when I made a couple of opening comments. Department heads will be submitting things to you only through the Mayor only after they had gone through the advisory board for that department. The department head would submit it to the advisory board and then it would go to the Mayor and then it would come to you. Mr. Baker - How does the Mayor get something on the agenda? As a proposal for an ordinance or any other type of thing that the executive does. How does the Mayor go about doing that? Mr. Walsh - I would have to presume, Dick, that you follow about the same procedure in that instead of Council Committees submitting proposals on Public Service, that your rules would say, "The Mayor shall submit things for next weeks agenda up to a given time." The Mayor would simply file them with the Clerk, if that is what the rules say. This all comes under the heading "Report from the Mayor, Mr. Sawyer - Also, Councilman Baker, I would call your attention to Proposal 3-103. 3 which does require that time be set aside on the agenda of each Council meeting for a report from the Mayor. Which would appear to reserve at least that much leeway. Discussion on state legislative bodies having a sponsor before bringing things before the legislative body. Mr. Donnellan - As a practical matter, he had better have five votes. Mr. Baker - It may not be a practical thing and it may be for other reasons that it would be put forward. Mr. Walsh - Let's put it this way, Dick. I am certain that only a member of Council can introduce an ordinance. However, the Mayor in making a report to you can submit a proposed ordinance to you and recommend that this be adopted. Now, you get his report with the back-up material and it is up to you to decide what to do with it. He would nni il111-OdUCe resolutions or ordinance(-- Conference onCbarter '8ogcmt 24, 1378 IzagelB Mr. Baker - That's what I wanted to know. Mr. Sawyer - Council shall continue to meet weekly but it is now only required ' that they meet 50 weeks of the }'mar, which means I guess, under the Charter up to two meetings a }'eer can he cancelled. Mr. Zimmerman - The intent, as we got into it was, Cbriotrouo and New Years and you had to waive or set aside a meeting and you may not have anything to discuss. Mr. I}ouuellun - Also the D8uoicip]e League meeting. If everyone io away at the Michigan Muoiciple League meeting . . . Mr. Sawyer - It should be noted here on your posting ofnotices for meetings it requires that notice, not only that meetings will be beld , but that it will show the topics that will be discussed too. Special meetings require service of the notice at least . . . ^ Mr. Blair - Bold it / That throws up u question. Can we have a same kind of a n}'stezu where we waive rules to pass tbio/To that are not on the agenda, The way you just said that it sounds like we just lost our power to . . , ' Mr. Ziozzoerzoao - No. We tried to do it the opposite way. That was rather than vraiveing the rule of the previous [barter, you always when you had to du that, now you can handle within your ovvo rules, vvai\/eiog to bring on some- thing -that is urgent that uigbt, Now you can do that within your own procedures of how you want to do that. Mr. Hull - Under the ()oeu Meetings Ordinance? 88r. Zicuozmrroao - No, under this . 3. You are going to set up your ox/o rules. Mr. I]onoeIlan - This goes further than the open meetings rule. It goes further iolimitio� tue Council. &Ir, Blair - Could you speak to that? Mr. I}onmellan - (}. I<. Concaivabb/ tberi could be an issue that comes up' in front of the Council that was not one of the topics listed in the notice of the meeting. And, under no interpretation could any of the topics he read that way. And conceivably the decisions could be challenged as a violation of the Charter'. that there was oo notice given. But, Iwould . . Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 20 Mr. Blair It happens very often. Maybe two or three times every meeting. Mr. Donnellan - No, I mean challenged by the voters later. Obviously there would be a dispute .between the Council .people whether something is properly before the body, but there couldpthere could be a challenge by the citizens who felt that they were being sanbagged. That they weren't given the Charter notice. The way around that is to state topics in broad sense so that if something is a necessary item of City business, that is within the topics notified. I personally think that citizens should be prepared for almost anything coming up at any Council meeting. Mr. Baker - You want to come on T. V. too? Mr. Ada( o - There are very limited things that we suspend the rules for and act on and act on to give immediate effect. One is when somebody comes in and wants to park a trailor out here or a paracle permit. Mr. Baker - I could think of some things. . The Tops purchase a couple of years ago. They were ready to suspend the rules on to purchase the property one night. I.could roll off a half-dozen things such as that. Mr. McKesson - You can still cover it in your organization, in the rules. At your first meeting you are going to establish rules for your own conduct. You can establish the means for introducing non-docketed items. Mr. Sawyer - As Mr. Donnellan pointed out, by having broader topics on your list to give yourself leeway. Additionally, things like parade permits and other things probably could be handled by administrative procedure set up by ordinance of Council. Mr. Sawyer - Going on to Special Meetings, they can be held at the call of the Zn In Clerk upon written request by the Mayor or any two Council members, And you should note that 18 hours notice is required which parallels the statutory requiremel of the state. But you should also notice that the service of notice of meeting on Council member does not necessarily have to be personally, it can be left at his usual place of residence. Attendance rules are still as they were. Council may compel attendance. Going to voting. It still requires an affirmative vote of five members of Council to take any official action of Council , which parallels the old requirement. One minor chancre, at least for most part. Th^r will not be, if there is ever a vacancy of Council. There is a requirement of two-thirds vote will only require five votes of Council in the event of vacancies. That does not mean in the event that a Council member is absent, but in the event that there is a vacancy in the office of an elected member. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 21 Mr. Zimmerman - We did that for a specific reason too. Mr. Donnellan - That doesn't apply to every two-thirds vote requirement. Only if the two-thirds vote requirement states "Two-thirds of the Council members serving. " Some of the two-thirds vote requirements are two-thirds of the Council members elect and they were carefully reviewed to allow for Council action in some cases where it might be an emergency. Mr. Sawyer - There is basically the same requirements existing as before to require each Council member to vote on every issue and the conflict of interest question is determined by a majority of Council, or rather the six votes, I believe that's a change. Like the refusal of the requirement to vote still requires two- thirds affirmative vote, as before. Section 3-206 Investigations, gives Council specific power to make investigations for all affairs of the city and the conduct of a city agency. And gives the subpoena power in addition to that which is enforceable through the District Court. It is my information there is also a statute pending in the State right now to make it more definite; the specific powers allocated to municiple governments. I don't believe however it has yet passed. Mr. Zimmerman - We are ahead of the State. Mr. Baker - But we will have that power, regardless? Mr. Sawyer - Yes. Mr. Blair - But that is only in the city limits ? Mr. Zimmerman - It is only with the agencies. Mr. Donnellan - That is correct. That is the jurisdiction of the district court here. Mr. Blair - I was thinking of a department head living outside the City. We couldn't subpoena him. Mr. Baker Once he showed up for work you could. Mr. Blair That's right. There is no residency requirement. I was just thinking of somebody outside the city, such as a board member or . . . . . . Mr, Baker A marketer, marketing for something as a consultant. Mr. Blair There are all kinds of - - - -I was Just wondering how far our subpoena power went. Just the city limits. Conference, on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 2,2 Mr. Donnellan - If you have to subpoena somebody to get them in front of the City Council you had better be talking to the prosecutor because he would be worth talking to. Mr. Hull - Suppose you were holding an investigative hearing. An overseight hearing. Preparatory to writing legislation. t> Suddenly you have this situation \cb develop. The committee says we would like to have the Director of 'such-and such' department come and tell us about the price of tea in China. The Mayor \`� �E-,c says, "He's my department dead ane he's not going there to tell you anything. "Go jump in the drink' Well, I can subpeona him, Mr. Donnellan - That's right. That's what the thing is there for, as a back-up. It is not intended that it would probably have to be used , but the fact that it is there would have an effect. Mr. McKesson - If it happens, let me know. I want to attend that meeting. Mr. Baker - When you say here that the City Council may subpoena. Does that include the power of City Council to delegate that power to a committee that is doing investigations ? That they can issue a subpoena? Mr. Sawyer - No. It takes five votes for an action of Council, Councilman Baker. Under the Charter, a decision to subpoena , in my opinion, would be an action of Council requiring Mr. Baker - But can they delegate, by a five vote of Council, to say that "X" Committee shall have subpoena power as well as doing it's investigation. Mr. Donnellan No. Mr. McKesson That is tantamount to an appointment of a grand jury. Mr. Donnellan It says that theCity Council may subpoena. It doesn't say the City Council may authorize subpoenas, Mr. Hull - It is quite common in the legislature to establish an investigation committee and, confir upon them subpoena power. Mr. Donnellan - That's true, but the City Council is not identical to the legislature. Mr. Walsh We did-l't think you needed that. Mr. Sawyer O. K. , going on. No. 3-207. Members of the City Council have all the rights appropriate to city legislatures and it specifically includes the right to make inquiries of city officers and emplo*veos and receive specific information and responses. That of course does obligate all city officers and Y)T)I nV 0;1 q ff) PO Q I)i)n,I �Y%, Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 23 that response has to take to require that it be in any form. The general responsiblity of Council is dictated here to be establishing policy of the cit.' and legislative in nature. And that of course is the specific pronouncement what seems to be the general organization and format dictated for city gov( went under the new Charter. Allocating that specifically to Council. It sa "As except as otherwise may be provided by law or this Charter, the admi trative activities of the City Council and its members shall be limited to it- own staff and they shall give no direct orders to any other city officer or employee. Now it's own staff, of course, is the staff hired and the Council is given rather broad. power to hire it's own staff and presumably the Auditor's office is made, responsible to the City Council. The Internal Auditor, Mr. Baker - We can make strong suggestions, especially around budget time. Right? Mr. Sawyer - You have the budget power, Mr. Baker, and that is a strong suggestion when exercised in and of itself. Chapter 3.. Legislation, there are certain criteria setting forth what is required to be clone by ordinance and they are pretty much self-explanatory. Obviously, notice by law, requires an ordinance to amend or repeal an ordinance, existing ordinance. Any action of change the action takes an act of equal dignity. Any- thing which provides a penalty or establishes a rule or regulation in which there is a penalty has to be done by ordinance. And providing for the leveying or collecting of rents, tolls, excises and taxes, except for taxes levied automatically`, through the procedure set up here in the Charter for annual budget appropriations. Mr. Baker - Just a minor point. We sometimes authorize action by adopting a committee report without a formal resolution. Is that still permitted under here? We in effect make a motion to resolve that we will adopt the committees report. Is that in concert with what you are saying here or does it mean that the Council will actually take a resolution to act upon it? Mr. Zimmerman - I would suggest that the Committee place a resolution on the agenda as opposed to a committee report and then a resolution. Mr. Blair - We have only used - when we have got a committee reports, we normally don't have a resolution. Mr. Aclado - We aren't going to have that type of committee. Mr. Walsh - It won't happen often, but a resolution is a statement of a legis- lative body approved by the majority stating a point of position. Now, if you move to adopt a committee report or you move to a('opt the Mayor's recomm- endation, hopefully. what you have been doing . . . The committee's report expressly says, ''We propose the Council do thus an(I so, " You move to adopt Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 24 this, in escence, you have moved a resolution that says this is what we do. Mr. Baker - Thank you for the clarification. Mr. Donnellan - Any Council action that isn't an ordinance is a resolution. The only other thing you vote on are procedural motions. Mr. Sawyer - Moving on to Introduction of Ordinances. I think it is first important to point out that the Charter specifically requires an ordinance contain only one subject, clearly stated in its title. Now, for the most par I don't think this is going to cause any problem. It doesn't effect existing ordinances. It goes to ordinances that are hereafter introduced, but in drafting ordinances our department will work carefully to see that this is adhered to. There is a purpose for it, I guess,and that is to put the public on better notice as to exactly what is being done on an ondinance. I point it out because it is a requirement and an ordinance that isn't adhered to could be attack by somebody that doesn't agree to it. Mr. Donnellan - Provided that it is raised prior to the effective date. There are statutes which were enacted ten years ago that are attack today because they weren't properly introduced. And, that seems to be an unnecessary result and it is avoided b point . 6. no y Mr. Saywyer - Going on to Public Hearings on Ordinances - this is a new re- quirement of the Charter and that is that every introduced ordinance, every time a new ordinance is introduced: that there be a public hearing held on it. With notice to the public given at least five days in advance. Now, notice . . you are not required to have any particular form of notice. In your rules you should specify what certain notice you wish. After the enactment.of an ordinance, it should also be noticed, this is to be published and it shall not be effective until it is published. Even an emergency ordinance will not be effective until published. Mr. Donnellan - That's right. There was a case a few years ago called Walsh against the City of River Rouge, it was a different. Walsh. But, the Supreme Court of Michigan said very definitely that no ordinance could be effective until it was published. And the Attorney General's office wouldn't even consider approving any charter that didn't specifically say that in no uncertain terms. Mr. Zimmerman - Even emergency ordira noes? Mr. Baker - That is what I'm saying. Even emergency ordinances they have to be published. You are saying, no matter how great the em-ergency. you Gave to I wait five clays. That is as soon as we can 'get it into the papers. ` Conference on Charter Aoguet24' 1978 ' Page 25 . Mr. Zimmerman - No, five days is your public hearing. Mr, DooueIlau - You are saying, it would take five days to get it in the paper? Miss Fulton - That's right, Mr. DnuneIioo - I'zu not sure that it wouldn't be possible toget something in the paper quicker ifit was atrue emergency. Miss Fulton - That is the rules we get from the Journal, that you have to have especially if you are going to publish anything, that it has to be down there five days prior to publishing. I've tried. We often do, on zoning matters whensomething comes up at the lost minute, vreget it but it isn't easy. ' Mr. DououlIao - That is to publish it in the legal notices section. If you were oopa.geone Mr. Walsh - Well, see' an emergency ordinance, we thought of and set out here and is different than u zoning thing. I[ you had another flood and you had to pass an ordinance, you would put io' tbe language that says, ''This is an emergency and vve make this. ou emergency ordinance - it is self-expiring in 60 days. /' I think if you took that to the Journal you would get it in tomorrow. Miss Fulton - ]Bzoergeoo}r ordinances, we have that at the end of the ordinance that it is being passed as an emergency ordinance. We always publish it right along with the ordinance . Mr. GavvJ/er - I think-you shouldnote that the Charter makes , . changes the definition of emergency ordinance, 'nat a little bitfrozo what we had before in the old Charter. It distinguishes between what is referred to as emergency ordinance and giving an ordinance an immediate effect. o,� emergency ordinance is provided for on the next page' that being page O - Section v 3 -308 and it says 8pecificall}' that tbe}' may only enacted meet o uobli ' life' health, propert3/ orpublic peace, but not toIe t o emergency affecting �y taxes, —grant, ~renew or extend afronobise' or regulate the rate charged by any public utility. Emergency e z o yordiouzceo. like non-emergency ordinances. both may be given immediate effect. In words, you no longer have to have an emergency ordinance cogive it aniommdiate effect. You can give a regular ordinance immediate effect by a vote'Aod, au emergency ordinance uo longer automatically has an immediateeffect, it two-thirds of Council in order to eveo �ive it cuer"—ocJ Vrdioaoce'lo either case' even if immediate is voted by the two-thirds votes, there is still a requirement that, specifically, it he published in a paper of �er ~r~l circulation to effective. Mr. Zicocoercuau - Just understand that this was because of another court decision. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 26 Mr. Adado' - You can still give it immediate effect but it still has to be published. I mean, emergency effect, it still has to be published. Give it immediate effect it is effective as soon as it is published . . the day it is published. An emergency, even though it hadn't been published will still have immediate effect. As soon as it gets six votes. Mr. Sawyer - Let me point out one other thing with emergency ordinances. Theyare set up to be just that' and they expire of their own force 60 days later. So if Council wants to continue the effect of an emergency ordinance, that well may have been enacted to meet an emergency situation, it may then be considered desirable to keep in effect, they will then have to move with all proper speed to introduce a permanent ordinance to surplant that emergency ordinance when it expires or repeal it earlier and replace it. Mr. Baker - I am not sure what we said here. On an emergency ordinance, say that we passed it tonight, with six votes. Would it go into effect tonight or would it go into effect five days from now after it was published. Mr. Adado - It would go into effect as soon as it was published. And that could be on the front page of a newspaper, the following day. But that would have to be printed at our . - - it couldn't be construed as a news reported item. It would have to be printed as an emergency ordinance. Mr. Walsh - So keep it short. Mr. Adado - That's right. Mr. Walsh - Dick here. We made what I think is a new category here. And we said in the case of fire, flood . . insurrection, you need to do something. Mr. Baker - Let's talk about an insurrection. We pass an ordinance here, delegating the power to the Mayor's office . . . . Mr. Walsh - The Mayor is damn well going to act whether the newspaper is out or not. Mr. Baker - Yes But you give the mayor some power. He acts under those powers. The paper comes out at 11:00 a. m. , the next day. he did something at 6 o'clock that morning, it hasn't been published yet. Isn't it effective? Mr. Adado - I think under a'peace keeping, he has a right to take care of an insurrection. Mr. Sawyer - Insurrections, riots and special emergencies are all under state statute, In fact there is a case involving. as I recollect. River Rouge that pretty much held that persay. Where the city had an errr-rgi:, ncy power to ordinance, the Mayor invoked it in order to take care of the problems and it was held . . . it was challenged by a.person who was arrested after the curfew was in effect Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 27 and it was held that the State Legislature, by passing a parallel act, which requires, and I got into this with Councilman Adado during our snow emergency, it requires the Mayor to contact the government and get a declaration of emer- gency to invoke these powers. , And that is how it is handled. Now, the Mayor of the City of Lansing, has the power in� such an emergency, to.call the Governor and the Governor agrees with him and signs a proclamation of emergency , he has very broad powers to invoke special rules and regulations and penalties to handle these situations, floods and things of that sort. Mr. Walsh - On the lesser scale, Dick, is the conservator of the peace, under State Law, the mayor has some inherent powers. Mr. Baker - Insurrection was a bad example. If we knew all the laws to write, we wouldn't even be meeting. We would have written them in 1955 and then just left everything alone. right? Times change. I'm saying, if he invokes a power that Council gave him the previous night that hasn't been published yet, could it get thrown out of court then becuse it hasn't gone into effect yet? Mrs. Sliker - What is the definition of Publish? Mr. Donnellan - The definition is in the front, actually, and it should be noted that it includes posting on a bulletin board, unless otherwise provided by the Charter. Mr. Sawyer - In the case at hand, i. e. , the enactment of an ordinance, this is specifically designated that the publishing will be in a newspaper of general circulation. But that is important to note that the notice of your hearing be published. The hearing that is required on non-emergency ordinances before enactment. Because if you wish to so provide by rule, the only publication that will be necessary , of that notice, will be on City bulletin boards. You could additionally decide that you would want to handle it in other ways. The option is left to you in that case. Mrs, Sliker - Even if the State Journal were wiped out, you could publish it in , say, the Detroit Free Press. Mr. Sawyer - That is correct. It says a newspaper of general circulation A in the area. Mr. Sawyer. Just passing on from ordinances, again just to point out the big distinction in the emergency ordinance,ordinance will be foregoing the hearing notice and double readings and enacting it immediately. Immediate effect is a separate thing. This Charter of course requires the charter revision question will automatically be submitted to the electorate in 19 87 and every 12 years thereafter. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 28 Charter amendments are allowed by a majority vote. At this point they noted that they had skipped a page and backed up. to page 6. Mr. Sawyer continues - On codification of ordinances - within three years after q the effective date of the Charter and at least every ten years thereafter, Council) is required to re-enact or adopt the. codification of all City ordinances. Now, 1 think that the intent of that is that that code be reviewed and up-dated every so often. Even though I guess if you went by the letter of it you could 9 always re- adopt your existing code rather than to do that. Mr. Baker - Isn't it already codified? Mr. Zimmerman - No. It has never been done. That is why we got into it Dick. Mr. Baker - What is the difference between compiled and codified? Mr. Walsh - Compiled - you lay one on top of the other. Codified - you review it - three years from now and every ten years thereafter. Mr. Baker - What is the difference between codified and compiled. Mr. Donnellan - Codified is organized. Compilation is .just every, usually in cronological order. Miss Fulton They were codified in 1958. Miss Baker Have they been codified since then.? Miss Fulton No, not since then, but they have been amended. Mr. Sawyer In connection with that, I point out that I have gone over those and so many of the ordinances are, by their very terms, hooked into the older administrative structure of the City, that is going to be replaced. That practic- ally speaking you are talking about an excessive weekly review of our code of ordinances. Not even talking about the chancres you want to make as to policy to up date, but just in terms of references being on par with the new administrative structure. References to the powers of boards and things like that which are realistically, our office, with the cooperation - hopefully , of city departments will have to move very quickly and probably much sooner than three years to make a lot of changes in those ordinances in the line with the new allocation of the powers. ` Conference onCharter ' August 34, 1878 I,agm29 ' Specifically our boards have been administrative in structure in many respects, in various appointed boards. Because that ordinance, vvbiob is specifically referred, many , many powers to those boards. That specifically will have to be done as soon as possible. One other aspect of the ordinance change, is that every ordinance vnbicb creates a regulatory function, an agency of the City, or prhvides for a service to be rendered, shall state that it expires in ten years or less. It is in essence a 'sunset'sunoet requirement. And the Clerk is required to notify� 6 months irzadvaoce of that expirutioo. And just so there is no nuisonderstaoing^ that does not mean that any existing ordinance will automatically expire in ten years or any period of time. It is phrased very carefully just to require that every ordinance in the future contain that provision. So it will expire of its ovvu accord. There is no necessity to start looking at what ordinances came in over ten years ago now. Just remember in the future that this will he on automatic part of any ordinance doing that. Mr. Zimmerman - Council understands the reason for doing that? 88r, Baker - We can't regulate the morals of the City anymore. I see you l�tt that out. - Mr. Sawyer - For those Council members who may have read , rather lengthy sections in our old Charter, numerating all the powers of the City, that ia~ ' really an old style of viewing what the powers the City has. The more modern trend of legal thinking in court interpretation otherwise, has been to make a small, very broad statement that says, 'anything you can do under law' sort of thing and that is what they have done here. So the City/o powers are as broad as permitted under the Home Rule Cities Act. It is not necesaarytV -- pnt in a two page numeration of all of the specific things.Internal - IotornaI Audit is set up as before. Is a department directly responsible to City Council. Internal Auditor oervs at the pleasure of theCity Council. It is the one department iothe City that has the dumper. Incidentally, the only other department of the City that retains any direct responsibility o the ^ Council is the I.avv Department. The City Attorney, unlike any other depart- ment bead is roac:e responsible to both the Mayor and the City Council for the legal affairs of the City. Every other department has been made directly responsible tothe Mayor. . | The Clerk is an independent office entirely. That should also be noted. Mr. Hull - If we have an Internal Auditor that we feel isn't doing the job. Be serves at our pleasure and we say, 'You have just exhausted our pleasure' so-long and the majority vote �ayo' Go-loo�, Right ? Conference on Char-ter August 24, 1978 Page 30 Mrs. Sliker That's right. Mr. Hull - What happens with an attorney. Because he is now responsible to both the Council and the Mayor. Mr. Sawyer -The Attorney, in my reading, can still be fired by the Mayor. There is no requirement there that the Council will participate in that decision. I suppose my own protection, if you people should decide that the Mayor is way off base and he would do something like that, which of course I hope he doesn't, would be as with every other city department, you have, I believe it is, 30 days period of time if you can muster six votes that agree with you, you can over-ride the firing or suspension decision. Mr. Hull - Let's put it the other way around. Suspose the Council says, this Attorney is a certified turkey and we are firing him. " The Mayor says, "I don't agree. " Mr. Sawyer - Then the City Attorney doesn't get fired. Mr. McKesson - The Mayor wins that one. Mr. Baker - What if you put together six votes? Mr. Sawyer - Under this initiative, it is vested solely in the Mayor. Even if you had a unanimous vote of Council it could not affect the firing of any city department head, except the Internal Auditor. Mayor Graves - Same thing in the present Charter. The Mayor has to initiate to the Council the firing of an individual of a department. Mr. Sawyer - That's correct. Your power isn't decreased . . . . Mr. Baker - Realistically though, if you have a City Attorney up here that has five or six Council members railing at him every night, he would probably disappear any way. It is going to be very hard for him to practice law in the City if he is getting bombarded. Mr. Donnellan - There are very few City Attorneys who would be willing to serve for a thousand dollars a year. I just point that out. Mr. Adado - You ultimately come back to the budget. Is that what you are s aying? Mr. Walsh - I'm not sure you have made a friend. Mr. Sawyer - I'm not sure I like the center of this discussion. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 31 The room was filled with laughter from all present. Mr. Baker - We just wanted to set a tone for the rest of the meeting. Jokes and chiding of the City Attorney followed with the Council members and Commissioners joining in the kidding. Mr. Sawyer - It notes, as provided by Charter, that the Auditor is not to have any connection with any other city agency. The Charter further poses that the requirement of an annual independent audit. Both the City Government and the Board of Water and Light. At the close of each fiscal year, and Council desig- nates the Public Accountant., Certified Public Accountant involved. Council has the gene.ral power to employ such staff to practice such services it feels necessary to assist it in its function. That gives Council very broad discretionary power in that effect. Coupled with its power to appropriate the. necessary money to do SO. Mr. Adado- Steve, can we back up' on that? On the External Auditor. The independent audit shall be made . - - City*Government, including the Board c Water and Light and it says that the Council shall appoint. That means we appoint the auditor for the Board of Water and Light now? Mr. Walsh - You do now. Mr. Adado - We do now? Several Commissioners - Yes. Mr. Adado - Well, they tell us who they want. Discussion on this being the language they have now and this aspect not havirlp, changed in the new Charter. Mr. Baker - Going back to the subpoena power of Council. Can we subpoena out of the Board of Water and Light.? Several - Yes. Mr. Baker - How did that escape them? Mr. Zimmerman - Just a minute Steve, could I make a point on that, still under the Internal Audit? On page 6. 1 just wanted to call it to your attention. Item 4, it says, ''As soon as possible after the close of the fiscal vear" and this is different, ''the Internal Audit shall provide an analysis of the financial position of the City . " and then, "The report shall be a public record. . . - " That is some- thing different than has been done before and I just wanted to point that out. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 32 Mr. Adado This makes an Internal Auditor an Internal Auditor. Mr. Zimmerman - Yes. And assuming that the External Audit has to have that in by October 15th, and that is the dates we talked about with the Finance Depart- ment, Mr. Adado He would do the Internal Auditing like the position created, dictated that it should have been but hasn't been. Mr. Walsh - Well, the Internal Auditor is the City Council's eyes and ears where the finances are in the City. Mr. Sawyer - I noted that the Council can employ staff and contract for services and it further notes that people appointed by the Council serve at the Council's pleasure. In other vo rds, the Council runs its own shop. Mr. Adado - The Mayor can't fire them. Mr. Sawyer - That's correct. Going on to the Executive Branch. Again th( deliniation as far as responsibility is made clear. The Mayor is designatec the chief executive officer of the City. He is to exercise supervision and coordination over the departments of government. Except as otherwise pro to the extent provided by the Charter. And see that all laws and ordinance: the City are enforced. He will no longer preside at the Council meetings. or his executive assistant is required to attend each meeting, and as is pre- noted, there is required to be a spot set aside on the agenda of each meetin.- his reports and also for a chance for the Council to question the Mayor, or his representative,and also the public to question the Mayor or his representative. Mrs. Sliker - Mr. Sawyer, I think the intent though really, was for the Mayor to be there and the reason we put administrative assistant was in the event that the executive couldn't be there. Mr. Adado - In the event that the Mayor is on vacation, the Mayor Pro-Tem can't take his place. Mr. Walsh - I think it would be very hard to keep the Mayor away from these meetings. Mrs. Sliker - We reviewed several charters in which the Mayor was not even required to be at Council meetings. We wanted the cooperation between the two offices. Mr. Sawyer - O. K. , going on. The Mayor is given the mandate, to recommend to the Council, from time to time, proposals progressing various City problems. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 33 And of course, correspondingly, the reservation of time for a report. It sets aside a time for doing that. The Mayor, each year, no later than the last regular Council meeting in January is to present the State of the City report to City Council. He is responsible for the development and preparation of the budget, directly, and will submit that to Council once it has gone through his process for development and approving it. There are a couple of future references to that, that I might note now. That is the case of the Police and Fire Department. Their budget also requires the approval by the Police and Fire Board, respectively. The Board of Water and Light is independent of this. It has its own budge-t. Mr. Baker - The Police and Fire budget has to be approved by the Board before it goes to the Mayor or the Council. Mr. Sawyer - The Mayor. I note that because that process has not been preserved in the case of any other board. Mr. Baker - Wait a minute. The Planning Board m uld have to do the same thing? Mr. Adado - Not anymore. Mr. Baker - The Planning Board sets the budget, under the State Law. Mr. Donnellan - The State Law doesn't require that the Planning Board be the head of the Planning Department. All that it says that they are required to have staff, if they wish it. So they are not required by State Statute to run the Planning Board. Mr. Baker - Doesn't the State Law say that they will hire the Director too? Several - No. Mr. Hull - They don't hire the Director? Mr. Baker - The Mayor will now hire the Director now? Several - Yes. Mr. Baker - Well, that's good. I didn't realize that. Mr. Donnellan - You might have the Planning Director being such a low level individual in the structure that the Mayor's appointment doesn't reach. Conference ooCharter August 24' 1978 Z,age34 Mr. Baker - If the Planning Department, for instance, was udivioioo within another department? Mr. DOnoelIan - Zbat/G right. ' Mr, Bull - It is under the re0rgaoivatiooal section. Mr. Baker - I'm surprised. - Mr. Sawyer - The Mayor is also required to respond to any report of the Internal Auditor of any irregularities or erroneous accounting methods. The Internal is, of course, required to give copies of his reports to the Mayor. 3o that is some- thing worth noting. Mr. Blair - Wbcd about things that take place in the next several weeks? Or things that are in the mill right now? Such as reports and investigations. .2beoe kinds of things. Between now and when the new Charter takes effect? Can . . . Can the Internal Auditor say, //I would like now to have you report on a situation that happened in .August of 1978. // What happens? I have a committee that has about 12 things in it right now. It has been- referred to it. One item is an iuveati= gelion, of a contract that we are doing .� . . , nr that the committee was working on. What happens in that situation. Because I have turned it over to the Internal Auditor. The Internal Auditor is investigating the situation. Now we ba\/eu/t accepted the report, and these sort of things. Here is a situation nvberc we are going tnbo in the middle of an investigation. Mr. DmnoeIlan - The general rule I vvnold follow. That you look at the triggering event. You look, for example, giving a copy of a report indicating irregularities to the Mayor. Did the triggering event occur aftc r the' date of tbe Charter. If SV you look to the Charter to see that it is follovred, If the triggering event happened before the effective dote of the Charter' then the obuuoee are you should trigger it again bJ/ filing a report again. That is a gan*ral rule that I would follow in all of these questions. Mr. Sawyer - I agree thoroughly with D8r, I}ooueIIan. Going on. The Mayor is responsible for the management of all real property nvvoed by the City. There are certain standards set up by the Charter for that management. Be is to re- port annually to "beCouoniI itemizing those interests and stating every parcel of land that the City nvroS. Be is also responsible for making an annual affirmative action report on the status of the Affirmative Action to Council. And generallyreSpousible for reducing oolavvful discrimination. There is also a requirement that the Mayor is to receive, investigate and respond to all requests for infor- mation and all complaints concerning the operation of City� government. Which to load to the reference of u lot of items that at tizuea come in. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 35 Mr. Hull Be a little more specific, will you? Mr. Adado - Refering to all items that might come in that are of a nature concerning the operation of City Government to the Mayor's office? Mr. Sawyer - Complaints or requests for information. Mr. Hull - So if a constituent calls in and complains about something . . . . Mr. Sawyer - That's right. The Mayor is in charge of supervisory powers over the department. Presumably it is appropriate that you direct those to him . . . . . Mr. Adado - Steve, Councilman Hull says that he gets a phone call, a comT What is the proper procedure for him to take. Mr. Sawyer -Pursuant to this Charter; direct it to the Mayor. Mr. Baker - You are saying that if a Council member receives a constituent complaint that a Council member cannot look into that? Mr. Adado - You can ask questions. You can get information. Mr. McKesson - You can get information from departments without going to the Mayor. Miss Baker You can't direct the department head. Mr. Adado There is no power to direct that department head to take action to correct that situation. Discussion on not being able to do this now. Mr. Adado - Well, I think if you ask department heads now, that they will probably tell you that they go ahead and take corrective action. Mr. Hull - Mrs. Jones calls me up and says , "The house next door to me has trash in the back yard and the grass is three feet high. " What are you going to do about it? Mr. Zimmerman - My interpretation of that is; you would respond to that citizen by taking care to listen to that citizen, take care of their concerns as an elected official. Say I will get the issue resolved for you. And I will even report back to you. Then I would turn that complaint over to the Mayor as an administrative thing to take care of that trash. or whatever it is, and he can follow through with the complaint. And, I would think a normal relation- ship would be is, "Mr. Mayor, I would like to be able to tell my party that Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 36 next Thursday it will be done. That type of a thing. You are actually getting that complaint. You are responding to your constituents and you are . . . . The only difference is you are taking it to the Mayor's office, as the Chief Executive Officer, to resolve the problem. Mr. Adado - Then when the person calls back and says "What happened? " You can say, "On the 12th day of August I referred it to the Mayor's office for his action. Mr. Hull - You mean I can't call up . . . say the Building Department on this trash thing and say, "Mr. Kzeski, did you know that the grass at 1234 Smith Street is three feet high and that there is junk in that yard and that may well violate the ordinances in this City of Lansing. " Mr. Baker It is just a request. It is not an order. Mr. Blair You should b*e able to call a department head and ask them to please come out and take a look at a situation. Mr. Walsh - That's right and we talked this over with a number of you over the drafts and tried to make sure that you didn't lose the right of the citizen to ask for information, make reports, or submit complaints. Mr. Adado - Officially it should be run through there, but there is nothing to restrict you from calling the Building Department and saying, "I got a call and reported it to the Mayor's office and there is a pile of trash at 316 Regent Street. Mayor Graves - Or, you have missed two blocks of orange baggs, How come? What's the story. Maybe the truck broke down. Mr. Sawyer - In some cases you may want to call the Mayor's office direct, in some cases you may not want to. Mr. Walsh - There*is one added value in going through the Mayor's office, Dick, and the theory of this Charter is that you have someone with. an overall view of how the City is operating and how its various components are inter relating, and if every week you are getting a complaint about yellow bags that didn't get picked up, in a given area, then it may be fine to call the department but if you call the Mayor you are more apt to get a permanent solution. Mr. Hull - I would think I would want to have a hearing to determine the policy of picking up bags. Mr. Zimmerman - That's one way. Mr. Adado - That's the option that we have. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 37 Mr. Zimmerman - You have another section there about inquiries. You can still get those. Mr. Blair - Where is the section under the Mayor? Where the Mayor shall handle all complaints? Mr. Sawyer - 4-102. 11, page 7. And you should, note that the Mayor call, if he so desires, delegate that authority, or responsibility, Mr. Blair - We are not going to be in violation of the Charter though, if we receive, investigate and respond to complaints concerning the operation of City Government. We are not going to be in violation of the Charter by doing it ourselves ? Mr. Walsh - No. As long as you are not calling up and saying to somebody, "Go get that done I " You are calling up and saying, "Did you know that the weeds are three feet high? " Mr. Blair - Why can't we say, "Go get that done." ? He doesn't have to liste to us anyway, he's not going to work for us. Mr. Baker - Well then, you would say, "As citizen Baker I call up and say, "This is Citizen Baker calling and I want trash bags picked up on Lapeer Street. Mr. Walsh - Yeah. Mr. Donnellan - Let me point out something else that you haven't gotten to. Suppose the guy doesn't do it. You want the job to be done. If there is a written communication to the Mayor's office, and the end result is that nothing is done about it then you have something to be mad about. But if it was just a telephone call and you don't know what happened. You tried to get back to that person and they are on vacation and you have no way of finding out what happened. Who you have to c3mplain to? Mr. Baker - Let me explain the facts of political life to you. That is what all of the Councilmen are getting at here. We value, very much our constituents, and value very much being able to give service to our constituents who call up to us with a complaint. Right Mr. Adado. Mr. Hull - That is the bottom line. Several spoke at once and it was difficult to separate at this point. Mr. Baker - Mayor graves values that same right in his office to resolve complaints, and that is a very big part of our job, Conference on Char-ter August 24, 1978 Page 36 Mr. Donnellan I don't disagree with that, but all I am suggesting is that there is no reason why there can't be a record of what is happening going through the Mayor's office. In fact you would want it. Mr. Adado - You can channel it through the Mayor's office but it doesn't stop you from calling the department and saying, "Look, I got a call. There is a problem with trash. There is a problem with weeds, etc. , etc. , " and at a specific location, "Would you look into it.? " Meanwhile, the Mayor's office has got an official record of it and if that thing continually comes up, he's got a problem. Mr. Baker - I don't think it is incumbent upon us to send, if I get a call in on a trash bag, that I've got to send a notice up to the Mayor, Several again spoke at the same time and nothing could be put into transcript. Mr. Adado - I am just saying that it would give him a better over-view of what is going on so that if we take care of it the way we are now, on an individual basis, They may call you this week. They may call Bob next week, they may call Jim after that. And it could be the -same problem at the same location. Without having one central collection point to look at Mr. Baker - We do, the Public Service Department, reporting to the Mayor. Mr. Adado - But the Public Service Department isn't going to take the necessary correqtive action to see that it doesn't happen again. That way, this office is going to say, "Hay, how come I have all of these at that same location for four weeks running? Mr. Walsh - Let me give you a parallel here. Now, granted problems are a little different and yours are usually smaller and more immediate duration. I was on the Board of Education a long time. Occasionally people would get hold of me; they had a problem. Now, the policy I involved was I would write the Superintendent a detailed letter and I laid out the problem. What happens? It goes down the channels of command . It got to whoever was involved. It went back up the channels of command and the long range result was that type of problem didn". happen again because the pe(,ple got involved. Not just the guy that missed the bags. Mr. Baker - Right, but who did he work for? Mr. Adado - He worked for the legislative branch of the School Board. Mr. Blair - I've got another question. This says that the Mayor's office shall receive all complaints. Are now . . . is it going to be mandated because of this new separation of policy, that, take the individual that doesn't have his trash Conference ouCharter August 24, 1878 Pagw3S picked up. He does not . . . heoo longer calls the Public S8r�viceD9partmeot and says, //I have abrnkeu sidewalk and didn't get zo3/ trash picked up. // He . . . . I}oeo he now call the Mayor's office ? If it is so important for oa to leave this track, then v/hv isn't it important for the citizens to leave this truck? ' Mr. DunneIlau - I think you are misreading the sentence. Read it . . . . Tbe limitations on the Council was the language that was read earlier, prohibiting the Council from giving orders. It is not this section. This is the one that imposes a duty oothe Mayor and it is not inherently o limitation oothe Council. Mr. Graves - No different than we have in the Charter now. Mr. Blair - But the Charter is different. It is avvboIe new ball game. Mr. Ziroroercuao - l uzuobaciaetbat one point that you made and that is paragraph 12' where the Mayor may or may not vvuut to delegate those it*ruS and specifically that is io the budget, the property and discrimination complaints area. That, if he is going to delegate those be is going to file notice. Mr. Sawyer - That's right. f\ notice stadiog what the specific delegation was, both in the terms of the power delegated and the person it is delegated to. Mr. Baker - Is the City Clerk under any obligation to inform the City Council of that delegation. Mr` DonrzeIlau - That is intended. I am not an/are right now of any specific language. The assumption was, anything that was filed with the {,itJ/ Clerk, along these lines, not statutory duties' but anything required to be filed by Charter with the City CIerb, would vvizzd up before the City Council. If you have any doubt about that you can just mandate it in an ordinance or resolution. Mr. Baker - I just wondered if that would be the normal course of event o that would occur. Mr. Donuellun - It was the intent. Mr. Walsh - We would assume that it would happen. Mrs, 8Iiker - An example of reportiogbeforetbo City Clerk, would bethe procedural rules for Police and Fire. These are just done at budget time at the present time. However, 'they will be on a continual basis in the future and it Council vvsots'n/aotG a cop y of those in the future , sent to iodtvld-laI members, bJrthe Clerk, they should gn state. Mr. /\dado - Before we go on. Does anyone want to take ubreak. We have been here for more than two hours. Let's take ten minutes and he back at quarter after, O. I{. ? • Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 40 About 9:15, Mr. Adado called the meeting back in to session and requested that the City Attorney, Mr. Sawyer;continue on. Mr. Sawyer - Now on Page 7, Article 4, Chapter 2, entitled Executive Staff. Basic to the Mayor, he is to have an Exeuctive Assistant under this Charter. The Charter does provide that the appointment shall be solely on the basis of the persons ability to exercise the powers to perform the duties assigned to him. That shall be demonstrated by relevant executive or administrative or other experiences. Again, as with the Internal Auditor, who is a person under Council, the Executive Assistant is under the Mayor and serves at hi, pleasure. Under Chapter 3, Departments,, first we refer to the organization of the Cit. under the new Charter. Rather than, in many respects, prescribe the set organization. this Charter chooses to,j?rovide.,instead, subject to certafnlir ions an ci Zca ion, for the establishment and change of organization i,- ongoing thing in the City. First of all it starts by providing that all departments will continue as they are now, at least until some action is taken under the Charter. Secondly, the Charter provides for the Continuation, by Charter, in other words they are not subject to abolishment, of eight departments of the City. At least,, , I shouldn't say they are no_T_s_u_U_je`ct to abolition, rather I should say that they are not without amending the Charter. It appears to be that to me, and that is It should also be noted, in some cases, they are refered to as agencies of the City , which doesn't necessarily mean they are a department. You've got the Board of Water and Light which continues and later on in the Charter you will note, retains its independent functions quite a bit, in the City as before. You have a Finance Department, Law Department, Parks and Recreation Department, Planning Department, Public Service Department. All of those departments as you note, at least some of them certain dutie,,- assigned to them further on in the Charter. I saved the Police Department and Fire Department until last so that you will note, in both their cases, they also are sheltered in certain ways, at least a little bit, from reorganization, and ad—ministration control. In a special fashion that is unique Mr. Baker - Does this preclude, for instance the Planning Department, you are saying that it cannot be eliminated except by Charter Amendment? Mr. Zimmerman - Correct that. Mr. Donnellan - I think if you read the whole thing altogether, all that is done in Section . 2, is to list the departments that exist prior to the present charter, and they have certain duties as long as they exist. And then other agencies that aren't in the present Charter are listed in Section . 3. And then in Section . 5, it says I think as strongly as it can be said. that to the —extent permitted by law the Citymay, —by _o_rcfinance, establish, abolishand reorganize departments. Mr. Baker - I understood that,but I misunderstood what you said earlier. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 41 Mr. Donnellan - No, let me just finish because there may be some disagreement. Departments was a phrase that was used to describe the points, the ones in point 2, except the Board of Water and Light, they are all departments. And then point 5 says, that the City may re rtmentS Must refer back /,J Y to point 2. Other than the Fire Department, Police Department and the Board Now, I really can't think of any clearer way of saying that any other than those three can be reorganized. Mr. Baker - Mr. Attorney, I agree with you entirely, but I misunderstood what you said earlier. U Mr. Donnellan - The fairest reading I believe would be that all of those wo-uJd be subject to reorganization except the three that are specifically excluded from that. Mr. Zimmerman - It is interesting too, that you can do some reorganization as it 'nvolves the Police and Fire. but only in one manner, that is add additional res o sibilities that are compatible with those operations. ou can do the came thing with the Board of Water and Light, providing you ve the Board of Water and Light's consent. Mr. Blair - Such as placing the parks police under the Police Department and telling them that they shall police parks. Mr. Baker - Can you make the Fire Department sell license plates too? Mr. Adado - Steve, maybe you would like to explain why you said what you said in amending the Charter. Mr. Sawyer - I would be happy to. I guess the question arises in my mind, the Charter specific allocates duties and functions to certain departments. It additionally has two separate sections here. Section 2 says, ''Thefbllowing agencies of the City shall have the power and duties described in this Charter. " Again the mandatory terms. It refers to those, as I mentioned, later on in the Charter it describes specific duties and functions for those departments. Then it goes on in Sub-Section . 3 to say, ''Other agencies of the City previously established by ordinance, or otherwise, shall continue in existence subject to reorganization in pursuant to this Charter. " It doesn't say that about the eight agencies above that. I think you have to . . . I didn't have the privilege of setting with the Charter Commission and knowing the intent of that, but looking at it from the outside I have to make that distinction. Mr. Adado - I just wanted to give Steve a chance to explain where he was coming from because that is the way I would interpret that. We are not going to debate that point anymore, lets get on with it. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 42 Nancy Baker - Point I is the introduction to that and I think that's important. It makes reference to the status of those departments as by ordinance. Mr. Sawyer - I did make note of point . 1 that all will continue Mr. Walsh - With the status of ordinance. Mr. Sawyer - Right. Until changed in accordance with the terms. Mrs. Sliker - You might want to look at the definition of agency in the beginning, and then . 4. Mr. Adado - if it comes up that the Mayor wants to rearrange items a through h and someborily wants to challenge him in court they will answer., that. Right now we are not challenging that now. Mr. Sawyer - Also important, from my point of view, coming up with the interpretation I have, that it starts. out with, ''Except as otherwise provided in this Charter, " By otherwise providing you could look also to the section appointing duties to certain existing departments of your Charter. Mr. Baker - So you are saying that those can't be reorganized. Mr. Sawyer - I am not prepared to say that at this time. I am saying, on first reading of it I come to that conclusion. But I have not researched this in depth. I am not giving a formal opinion here, saying that this is my opinion. Mr. Zimmerman - Just let me give you the benefit of it. I wrote most of that section with Tom (Walsh) and our real intent was that we wanted to show the eight basic hard core services that the City has to provide but we still wanted to give some capability to the City Council and the Mayor to be aol—eTo—do- some reorganization. For all the reasons that reorganization are good for. I can see ho--wyuu would have followed that order and come up with that assumption, but we got that language in there specifically, in point 5, for that reason. It went, clarifyinV it furthe.r. with those three departments that are not subject to reorganization, you can add services Mr. Sawyer - Obviously, that's true. Going on to point . 5 however, then you would go again to your provision of reorganization by ordinance. It starts out with , "Except as provided by law. " And just as you have a broad definition for City Agency. -ou also have a very broad definition for Law, which by its definition would include provisions in the Charter. Again.you could make the argument, may or not, except to the extent that you have the Public Service Department with such functions designated under Charter that's except as provided by law. I would also distinguish between . 5 and . 7. You actually Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 43 have two methods of reorganizing set up under this charter. The first is by ordinance, under point. 5, subject to limitations which I guess there could be some disagreement over. You have a second and independent method, however, and that is by the Mayor, filing a re organizational plan. Now, this plan is man- dated. At least that it be done one initial time before January 31, of next year. And, the plan to provide for the reorganization of one or more agencies, which gives him broad discretion, I guess, to the scope of the reorganization he may wish to take. It encumpasses also assigning authorized programs, services and activities to each agency. Again I would interpret this to be subject to the limitations set forth in the Charter as to functions being given to certain depart- ments. Nancy Baker - I was just going to reemphasize that point . 1 came first and that was our broad basic statement and the following statement, that I have under- stood to be . Mr. Sawyer - When you talk basic statement, is until changed in accordance with Charter. Nancy Baker - The first statement is the broad statement. As I recall our discussion and our intention. Mr. Sawyer - Well in any event - moving on - I guess that isn't something we can . . . . Mr. Dennellan - Let me just suggest one thing I believe in interpreting this Charter you should consider the entire process, including the submissions that were made and were turned down. I believe your comments are well considered, but I think you should consider further the entire process, including the minutes and the Charter submitted . . . Mr. Sawyer - I was about to say, I will be most interested in looking at the minutes. Frankly, I went up today and checked with the City Clerk to make sure where they were and I looked at three volumes and decided that there was no way I was going to read those before I came here tonight. I just told her to hold on to them. I think one thing of interest that I wished to comment on was that I noticed that w Let P rp-or gip2 nation, under point 5 of that section i. e. , by ordinance specifically exempts the 'Fire Department Police Department . and the Board of Water and Light. The alternative method of reorganization does not make any exclusion of that sort. Which would mean to me that at least, sub- ject to specific allocations of the charter, things are set forth in the Charter, the Mayor co_Wd_ nde-r4a4-e--s-a1me r or�aniza_tion in terms of the Police and Fire Department. I don't know that this was the intent.! Mr. Adado - It really exempts the Board of Water and Light. ^ Conference ooCbartur August 24' 1978 Page 44 Mr. Baker - The Council can't reorganize the Police and Fire but the Mayor could submit that they could be . . . ^ Mr. S I think it couldb d that it couldb the b is a section allowing for reorganization by ordinance which specifically excludes t ose re )ar ments where the one allowing for the reorganizational-plan does not. Mr. Baker - You are saying it is factually possible ; politically don't even dream. Mr. }lJaGo - As the old saying goes, you know. if you bad seven lawyers and you crave them the same thing you would get eight oolodinua. Mr. Walsh - Thanks a lot. I think the point is well taken nzzthe language difference but that was bJ7oomeans the intent. ' Mr. Adado - I think we all know the intent. Mr. McKesson - Could we say for the record, "Oops1 x Mr, Sawyer - Those things Tpoioted out become very particularly in terms of the next series of sub-sections, vvbicb�kaalwitb, at least, the Charter designated departments, i. e. Zriruooe,-Fire, I.uvr, Parks and Recreation, Planning, Police Department, etc. All of these deal with a specific allocation of powers in some respect. Again, Mr. VVulsb - Steve, could I just make a general oozununot here? I give Dick credit for writing those earlier sections because it wasn't the way I would have done them - - - - Laughter from all. Mr. WuIob - This was the language we came up with to express intent. What we tried to do was to provide some kind of transition from the old charter to the new. The departments we carried over were those oueotiouoU in the old charter. we tr tations in so that the Police and Fire couild not be recombined since the citizens had voted to separate t em a deca e ogo' and to make an exception of the Board of Water and I.igbt. Now, about six out of the eight departments we mentioned, there is good reason for their being there. other than transition. With the Department of l.avv, for instance, there is a section about settlements o--.F suits against the City. except p/bcre totally covered by insurance. We have some specific things vvbiob deals with Police and lrire acrvines. We debated u long time between whether to talk in terms of Ole part cuents. vrbicb is the more traditional and the easire carry over than with services. But, most of the eight departments which are Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 45 intend mentioned in the Charter, which we didn't/to be locked in stone, but rather to restate some of the things that had been built into the old charter in terms of qualifications in those particular service areas. Now, like the civil litigation being settled, or not being settled, without the recommendation of the City Attorney and the consent of Council. And then Police and Fire have their own. Finance. We carried over the department of Finance structure so that it was important starting out. We didn't see any of those that could not be changed, but in order to maintain what we thought were stable, solid ideas out of the old charter, with reference to the providing of the service, we had to put them in someplace and this was the only way we could see to do it. So with that I will shut up. Mr. Sawyer on the reorganizational plan to be submitted by the Mayor. The Mayor shall submit a reorganizational plan not later than January 31, 1979. The Council may act to make modifications. It will go into effect as written by the Mayor unless the Mayo r,-u-nles s the mayor accepts modifications by Council to it, or alternatively unless Council says, by a two- thirds vote, we don't want it to go into effect. But if the Mayor refuses fr, accept suggestions by the Council it takes an affirmative two-thirds vote of Council to disapprove that plan to keep it from going into effect, as the. Mayor wrote it and submitted it. And that should be noted. Going on to the following sections. Again, this may be where we will have problems in interpreting it. The following, roughly seven or eight sections list departments and assign specific duties to them. First of all, Finance Department, and in each of these sections, or departments, with the exception of Clerk and City Attorney, they are responsible to the Mayor. It should be noted in the Department of Finance they say he ''shall" be in charge of the divisions of accounting, assessment, budget management, income tax, treasury. Again the mandatory assignments signments of duties to a departn-Lnt creates a problem of interpretation when relating back to the earlier reorganization concept 'Which you described to me. The Fire Department as is the case of the Police department, is set up in a unique situation. Mr. Adado - We have a Question. Mr. Baker - The Commissioners at this end of the table are not happy with your interpretations. Mr. Adado - What is the point of the unhappyness? Mr. Baker - Shall be in charge of the divisions of Accounting, Assessment, Budget Management, Income Tax, and Treasury. It appears to me that some of the Charter Commissioners are saying that that was intended as a transitional list and if the Mayor wishes to change that. or the Council, by reorganizational Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 46 plan, that those divisions could be under some other department. Mr. Zimmerman - That was the intent. Mr. Sawyer - That may have been the intent,but what you have stated back in them being unhappy with was the exact language in the Charter which I read, "Shall be in charge of" it says that. I just read it to you Councilman. Mrs. Sliker You added ari interpretation, just after that, which we don't agree with. Mr. Sawyer I am merely pointing out, as an attorney, "shall" is interpreted to be mandatory language, gene-ally, in the interpretation of statutes and ordinances, and that is the way it is written. Mr. Adado - "Shall" is a real rough word. Mr. Donnellan - In any event, the City Attorney has indicated that he hasn't looked at the minutes and hasn't given his definative opinion, but at some point he may have to. But, he is telling you what he is thinking right now, which is an advantage. Mr. Baker - I appreciate that. I would like to know both sides. Mr. Sawyer - Some of these things I am being particularly careful to point out because they have raised questions in my mind and as I said1we have the Charter Commission here and the Attorney who worked with them.. making a record of this now is probably beneficial to those people who disagree with the interpretation I just put forth as opposed to someone who might espouse the interpretation. Mr. Baker - I appreciate your bringing them up very much and I think it is highly appropriate. Mr. Sawyer - Going on to the Fire Department. Again, as.I noted, the Fire and Police Departments are in a different situation from other departments of the Oty. in th2,' they both will continue to have boards, in certain respects, administrative responsibilities, though not entirely, Both Fire and Police Department are made responsible to the Mayor, for the fulfillment of their praticular functions. Which. indicates that Fire is fire protection. The Fire Chief is to be appointed by the Mayor but from candidates recommended by the Board of Fire Commissioners. I guess interpretincr that. they used 9 1 plural there. The Commission is not, in essence, dictate the Fire Chief by sencling one person. Beyond that, they could recommend two or any number Conference on Charter August 34' 1378 ]Page 47 more candidates and the Mayor presumably vronId have to pick from those people, . Mr. Baker - The Mayor could turn those down though? Mr, Sawyer - Yes he could. Additionally, it provides that the Mayor could suspend the Fire Cbief . There is u provision then for an immediate hearing on the eoapcosinu. The Mayor, ooIikm aoyotb*r department, the Mayor doe., not have the power to fire the Fire Chief, or dismiss him, without the con- currence of the majority of the Fire Board, It should be noted also, that the Charter seems to ouaodmde that the Fire 'Department maintain and operate an ambulance, iobaIm1or' and other life saving and ezumzgeon}/ services as the welfare of the inhabitants of the City may require and as Council may direct. This is aspecific allocation, and in some respect, even an administrative function to Council in that-youare given power to direct the Fire Department to maintain those types of services. Mr. Zimmerman - It was meant tobc apolioJ' decision , . , . Go ahead Tom. Mr. Walsh - The reason that language is there is that vve face the prospect at some future date of a metropolitan service iopara medic program, for instance, or fire. And, this says that if Lansing has an ambulance, inhalator, and life saving program, then it is in the Fire Department. To the extent that the Council determines that the welfare of the City requires it. We felt this left it open, by cooperation or whatever means, meet the life saving and emergency needs of the people through any regional agency or program that might be (4eveInped, that Council approves. Mr. Sawyer - So in other vvord, that would tie io with your earlier section that r*ol]v didn't spend any time on, but Charter established policy where possible,working interms of metropolitan cooperation. That is the escape valve, otherwise mandate the Fire Department maintain those services. Mr. Walsh - Ibat/o right. Mr. Blair - A little 000troversJ/ that goes oniuthe city is, shall the Fire Department sell bicycle license plates or not? Is that permitted under the Charter? Miss Nancy Baker - Are they doiugitoovr? Mr. Baker - Yea. Mr. Zizuoocrroon - There is another section dealing with licenses that we will get into later on. Th(�re is an attempt here hJrthe Charter Commission to Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 48 have licenses as much condensed in one area for the benefit of the citizens so they are not going to all the various departments of the City to . Mr. Adado - There is nothing in here that prohibits or restricts the Fire Department from taking on that additional section. Mr. Sawyer - Going back up with sub-section . 1 here, that states the respons- ibility of the Mayor is for the provisions of fire protection services, fire prevention services,hence such other services as may be assigned to it by the City. Which obviously leaves open the provision of the City to assign it other functions. Mr. Baker - One final questions. Fire Department as applied against the Police Department, T think is similar. The Mayor suspends the Fire Chief. The Board concurs. The - or the Board can't muster five votes. Does City Council then override or is that the end of it. Mr. Donnellan - You mis-stated something. . . . . Mr. Mayor - You have to have a majority concurrence. Mr. Donnellan - Yes, you have to have an affirmative concurrence of the Board. It is not the same process as a department head fired and Council over turning it. It needs the concurrence of the Board. Mr. faker - I mis-spoke myself. Let's say that the Board does concur in the firing. Does City Council have power to over-ride that? Several - No. Mr. Adado - His only recourse is through the courts. Mr. Baker - I hope he's a Vet. Mr. Walsh - Let's hope he reads the Charter before he takes office. Mr. Sawyer - The next department is the Law Department. Unlike every other department the Council retains the power of confirmation of appointing the head of the Law Department. Discussion by several Commissioners pointing out a typo on Section . 1 of the printed document as it appeared in the State Journal. It should read, "The City Attorney SHALL be appointed by . . . " Mr. Donnellan - I don't think it makes any difference. In this case, "may" and "shall" wouldn't change the context. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 49 Mr. Sawyer - Unlike any other department head who is responsible to the Mayor, individually, it is required that the City Attorney be confirmed by the affirmative vote of the Council. It should be five votes of the Council. Additionally, it should be noted that the City Attorney remains responsible for the preparation or approval as to form, all bonds, contracts, ordinances and other instruments. The City Attorney is authorized to represent any employee in any action involving official duties, but only with the approval of Council, it is important to note. That may come to be of importance because that is getting to be a more and more frequent thing that people using Civil Rights Act actions and other acts to sue, and when the do they not only sue the City,but the officers and everybody else they can think of that are involved in it, Quite frankly, insurance companies, our insurance company, is now excluding impunative damages from their coverage, or they are claiming to exclude it and that is an awfully big element of that, so that sort of reputation may become quite important to the City officers. Mr. Zimmerman - The catch word is in there too and that is "With City Council approval. " Mr. Sawyer - Going on . . . . Mr. Baker - Does the Attorney under here have affirmative responsibility to make sure that ordinances that are prepared by the attorney's office are not in conflict with . . . . Mr. Adado - Item . 4 Dick. Item . 4 of Section 4-304 was read by Mr. Baker. Mr. Baker - Does that include that an ordinance does not conflict with another ordinance already in existence? Mr. Sawyer - We are responsible for the legal affairs of the City under the mandate of this Charter and I would interpret that to be under that mandate, yes. Mr. Donnellan - If something is contrary to an existing ordinance, it might therefore be improper to adopt it and therefore to approve it would be not to approve it as to form. All, "as to form" means is that the City Attorney isn't saying that he agrees with the policy stater in the ordinance, that's all. Mr. Baker - I wondered how broad 'form' was. Mr. Sawyer - Going on to the next point it should be noted that no board or officer is allowed to retain special council in any matter relating to the affairs of the City without first getting Council approval . Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 50 Mr. Blair - That includes the Mayor? Mr. Sawyer - Yes, that includes the Mayor. Mr. Baker - Board of Water and Light also? Mr. Sawyer - Yes it does include the Board of Water and Light. Mr. Donnell - The Board of Water and Light was aware of it and did not object to it at all because it is in the existing Charter. Mr. Blair - Run that again. Mr. Donnellan - The Board of Water and Light cannot hire an attorney without the approval of the City Council, after requesting the City Attorney's opinion. Mr. Sawyer - That's right. It is also required that before Council approve any request that they receive the written opinion of my office on it. Mr. Blair - We now approve the attorney for the Board of Water and Light? Mr. Sawyer - You have that power Councilman. Mr. Walsh - It is my understanding that he is an Assistant City Attorney, as a matter of status. I don't know how it got to be that way. Mr. Zimmerman - Every one of them that is hired by the City, as a matter of fact when I was here, my own attorney had to be designated an Assistant City Attorney. Mr. Baker - Steve, is Mr. Lavey attending your staff meetings ? Mr. Sawyer - No, he is not, nor is his salary included in my budget•. He does, however, work with me on things, quite often. In terms of keeping me apprised of what . . . . Mr. Adado - He consults with the . . . . with Steve. Mr. Sawyer - Going on with the . . . it also provides that in the case, except where a risk is covered by insurance. no civil litigation can be settled without Council's consent. That is an absolu':e requirement. It should be noted, however, unlike past practices. ,you could interpret this Charter to allow civil litigations be commenced without authorization. Assuming records anr! funds and. other things needed to commence it were alreadv appropriated in the approp- piate budget items. And that will be a chancre from past procedure, which has Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 51 zn been, at least on -our department's part, to secure approval from City Council before we commence anything except ordinance prosecution. Mr. Baker - Maybe this is an appropriate place to raise the question, in terms of approval of budget. Can conditions be attached to various line items, such as; providing a line item for civil litigation not to be used without prior consent of City Council. Mr. Donnellan - How would you have a line item like that? That would be a filing fee because the real cost of the litigation is the salaries of the employees. Mr. Baker - It could be done? Mr. Donnellan - You could probably attach a condition, unless it violated anotr mandate of the City Charter, and it might. But, as a general proposition in attaching conditions to appropriations is not prohibited. Mr. Baker - For instance. If the Planning Department regularly receives four, five, ten thousand dollars. Consultants that they may need at various point and time. Could we place under that line item, "To be used only with permission of City Council for each City Consultant contract"? Mr. Donnellan - Yes. The only problem you might run into is that if you done it wrong you might be running the department, which comes under the specific prohibition. Mr. Baker - But, you can run consultants into a lot of different areas. And we might have a consultant out here, it came up today for instance. Flood warning systems. To deci(le the feasibility of having a floor warning system. The City Council, when they put seven thousand dollars in that consultant's fee, intended that to be used instead to be used in traffic study in some neigh- borhood. But they go and take . . . and that was their intent. when they approved that budget item. But the Planning Department goes and just signs a contract to do a flood warning system. Mr. Donnellan That wouldn't give me any problem at all. What the Council should do is to put in a consultant study for a traffic light, or whatever it was for. It is a mandate . . . Mr. Baker and Blair - We have been putting in blanket accounts. Mr. Donnellan - If you mandate that the condition is that you go back to the Council, then you are running into some problems. Because , pending on the item, if that were not an item that should have come before the Council in the first place, then it might very well violate the prohabition against giving direct orders to the departments. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 52 Mr. Adado I think what that stems from. The budget at one time procedure was set up that you spelled out everything that you wanted to do in the consul- tant field. Sometimes you were over on one and under on another. And it required a transfer of funds. So, to eliminate that step, there was just a lump sum set for the hiring of consultants. And when it came up it was agreed that we would hire. Under the new Charter we don't have that prerogative and I think that is what Dick (Baker) is getting at. Mr. Baker - Suppose they run off on a feasibility study 'on building a 100 seat or 100, 000 seat football stadium in downtown Lansing? We don't want them going out and doing that. Mr. Sawyer - By narrowing your budget item description, quite obviously you can restrict the ability of City Government, or administration, to spend money. If you say, "overall, $1, 000 for consultant purposes for department. You have left a wide opening for numerous use of that money. If you say, "$1000 for consultant purposes that study traffic. " for instance, you have narrowed it considerably. If you go further, you have narrowed it further. At a specific point, however, in attaching conditions on this, you could approach the point where the essence of your function was no longer setting policy but also administering the on-going affairs of the City. Mr. Baker - Could you attach on there , 'Any consultant contract be approved by Council" to make sure that it is in accord with Council policy. Discussion as to whether this came under this specific section. Mr. Adado - I think that comes under Finance and Budgeting. When we get to Finance and Budgeting. Right now we are still get under the Department of Law. Go on Steve, let's continue on. Mr. Sawyer - Going to Parks and Recreation. It does say is responsible to the Mayor and shall be in charge of the agencies and programs for ceme services and facilities, forestry, parks and recreation. That is another mandated responsibility. Mr. Baker The next one is Planning. Mr. Sawyer Right. There is a definit mandate that the Director of Plann shall be responsible to the Mayor and 'or providing the Planning B')ard wit staff services and all necessary information for the Board to carry out its assigned duties. and that reflects State Statutory requirements that such things be provided. Additionally. it mandates that !he zoning department shall continue In to enforce zoning ordinances of theCity and prepare plans for the City and its various departments. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 53 Mr. Baker - Major change? Are you saying that they will do planning for all departments of the City? Mr. Sawyer - (Point . 6) "when the plans involve the character, location and extent of activities and facilities which impact on the social, physical and economic development of the City. Mr. Baker - It says, ". . . and prepare plans for the City and its various departments, when such plans involve the character, location and extent of activities and facility which impact on the social, physical and economic development of the City. " I would take that to mean, or as an example; that the Planning Department will now be doing the Planning for a Police Department. Because those are activities which impinge upon the social aspects of the City. Mr. Adado - I guess you gotta read the whole pa I ragraph. Dick, I don't, read it like you do and I'm not a Planner and I haven't worked in the Planning Depart- ment, you did. It says, "The Department shall administer and enforce the zoning ordinance of the City and prepare plans for the City and its various departments with such plans involve the character, location, extent of the activities and facilities. " Well, you've got to have the zoning. Don't you? Mr. Baker - After the word land' that it gets interesting. Mr. Adado - 0. K. Tom (Donnellan) what's your interpretation? Mr. Donnellan - I Won't rears it as all inclusive. I don't read it as saying, "shall prepare all plans" and I don't read it as "no one else shall prepare the plans. Nancy Baker - I don't believe our intention was to do that either. Mr. Zimmerman - No. Nancy Baker - Backing up to . 2, we were clearly permissive int erms of other departments undertaking studies as long as they inform the Planning Department. I think the point is specific to zoning just so we could get consistency in zoning... Mr. Hull - That's the way I read it. Discussion by several all at one time. Mr. Sawyer - Moving on. Police Department. Again we will get into the administrative dut;es assigned the Boards a little later. I was just going to note 'the Police Department there is one similar set, u,,D to the Fire Department with one minor difference. That is where the Fire Chief, the Fire Board gives candidates to the Mayor, from whom the Mayor appoints. In this case the Mayor appoints and it requires confirmation by the Police Board. That is a different order procedure. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 54 Mr. Walsh - It also requires consultation by the Mayor with the Board of Police Commissioners. Mr. Sawyer - That is correct. It does require that also. If they have the consultation it would in essence require that anyway. Now, Public Service Department, again, responsible to the Mayor, solely, They are mandated to be in charge of programs responsible for the provisions of construction, engineering, maintenance, sewage and waste disposal services and facilities and traffic. The addition of Traffic is a change. -Mr. -Zimmerman - I just want to point out there too,that it is more or less an error on our part because we specifically noted Traffic under previous page number 7, it is Item 19 and it was specifically put in alphabetical order there, of those agencies and in that process, somehow, we intended to delete traffic from Public Service. The reason it got in there was in our second election draft, we did that reorgainzation. And, when we rewrote those sections, we didn't drop these two words. We specifically laid them out when we did this entire section here so that Traffic was in here so there was planned, not necessarily under Public Service, but was intended to be part of the overall reorganization. In our reorganization draft, we had Traffic into the Public Service because of Act 51 funds. All the funds that the . . . . Mr. Adado - So we should amend this. Mr Sawyer - That sub-section does note that there remain in existence, subject reorganization in accord with the Charter. Mr. Adado - The Mayor may change it. Mr. Zimmerman - Whatever. The intent is that there is reorganization that takes place. It shouldn't gone in under both places. Mr. Sawyer - Going on to Department and Agency Heads, Again, sub-section, this is 4-401 point . 1, makes it a requirement for Council to adopt an ordinance setting forth the qualification for each head of the department or agency to be appointed by the Mayor. And that is to be adopted before any person could be considered for the position., Which to the extent we are looking any immediate vacancies, makes that a fairly high priority for Council. I would assume there would be imput from personnel department, perhaps, or other appropriate sources to consider. Discussion by several all at once, nothing clear could be separated. It seemed to be mostly remarks made jokeingly. Conference on Charter August. 24, 1978 Page 55 Mr. Sawyer - It also provides a protection clause for anybody who is not serving . If you have the ordinance set up to require the qualifications that are currently serving, head of a department or division does not fulfill that, it will not disqualify him from continuing in the service. 0 Mr. Baker Under . 2 has got to be one of the funnier little things in there. Mr. Sawyer Yes, I did wonder about the "except as otherwise stated what was meant to . . . . Mr. -Adado - Where is it stated otherwise, that you don't have to appoint qualified persons? Mr. Donnellan - No. It really modifies the "Mayor shall". Because there are provisions that have the Council appointing or someone else appointing. Mr. Sawyer - In any event, it clearly is the intent of the section that the person appointed have qualifications for the job. Mr. Zimmerman - It wasn't the intent over the qualification, but the appoint- ment process, Dick. Mr. Walsh - It shows that we can be humorous whether we tried or not Dick. Mr. Donnellan - We tried to change that , but it just got worse. Mr. Sawyer - It should be noted here, one interesting thing on the Mayor's appointment power is that he has the power to appoint, subject to a few limitations here and there, every head of department. But he does not have the power directly to appoint heads of divisions within a department or agency. Obviously who he will and will not have the power to appoint may depend upon some extent on what he wishes to reorganize as a department or not. It also provides that a division head can be the head of a department and visa versa. So you could have a duel designation of authority or function there. Mr. Baker - You could have the Department of Community Development with that departmen, head also being head of the Planning Division. Mr. Zimmerman - I just thought of another reason why we put that "except as otherwisel' in there, in the appointment process. It also says that the division heads will be appointed by the department. I think there are three exceptions to that. Mr. Sawyer - That's correct. The Assessor,. the Treasurer and theChief Personnel Director. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 56, Mr. Zimmerman - That's right. You are right on target there. Mr. Sawyer - Those three are reserved for the Mayor no matter how the reorganization is set up by Charter. Mr. Zimmerman - That's the way they are now. Mr. Baker - Do they have to be qualified? Mrs. Sliker - Yes. You write the qualifications. Mr. Sawyer - Going on. The head of each department of the City is respor to the Mayor for the administration of the department and. still under the di_ of the Mayor to implement the policies, including affirmative action, as expressed by ordinances and resolutions of Council.. Again, the Charter has deliniated the division of function in that section between the Mayor, departments and City Council. And yet making clear that they have an affirmative duty to implement the policies and ordinances set forth by the Council. It goes on to provide that everybody appointed by the Mayor has a definite - indefinite term, and except as otherwise provided in the Charter, may be removed or suspended by the Mayor. ''Except as otherwise provided' refers of course, to the Police Chief and Fire Chief. Where there is specific provisions as to how that is to be done. Mr. Baker - Is there an understanding here? We have a case before us where the person has appealed to the City Council on a grievance and wants a position but the position has already been filled by another person. So, is it possible to put that person in the position without firing the other person? During this 30 day grace period, does it , is it understood, or is it your understanding, that the Mayor would not be able to fill that position between that 30 day re- demption period, so to speak? For instance, if the Mayor fired . . . . Mr. Sawyer - This refers only to only people fired by the Mayor, the 30 days. Mr. Baker - Well, let's say that the Mayor fired the Finance Director. The Finance Director appeals to the City Council to over-rule it. Twenty-nine days later we over-rule it, but in the meantime the Mayor has appointed another person who is now the Finance Director. Mr. Donnellan - I don't think that would be a real problem. The first Finance Director would be the Acting Finance Director, would continue to be the Finance Director. Anybody who takes it within those 30 days would take it subject to the position going on to . . . . Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 57 Mr. Baker - We have a real quandry in another situation. Mr. Adado - That particular case, Dick, you are refering to, I think it is something different. It was a vacancy created; someone else was hired. (1) 1 don't think the Mayor would fill that until such time as the Council had acted and (2) if he did, the person who had taken the job would not have established any seniority rights or any rights to retain that job within that 30 day period. Mr. Sawyer - That would be my legal advice to the Mayor or any of the City if they should ask, is that it would be preferable not to fill those if at all possible, and if it were filled make that point expressly known. Mr. Adado - It would be smart for him to fire them on the 31st day of December, right? Then you have a new Council sitting. Mr. Baker - We have seen more absurd things happen. Mr. Sawyer - Vacancies are already covered on the comments I made before. Division heads can be department heads and visa versa, and regardless or not whether they are department heads, the Mayor is charged with appointing the Treasurer, Assessor and Chief Personnel officer. City Clerk is the administrative head of her office and is not responsible to Council or the Mayor,but is responsible to the people. In otherwords, is independent to function to fill the duties of her office. Presumably, the remedy, if she would fail to do so would be recall and nothing else. She is appointed the Chief Elections Officer of the City which ties in with her general function. Also, as Chairman of the Elections Commission. Going to Chief Deputy Clerk. They have here something I wish they had done for the Law Department too. That is to provide the Chief Deputy Clerk to fill the duties of that office in the absence of the Clerk. Mr. Walsh - Maybe you could suggest that to Council to do by ordinance. Mr. Donnellan - It came up with regard to the City Clerk because the City Clerk has very many statutory duties and they thought it would be happier having that taken care of. With the City Attorney, most of the duties are created by Charter or ordinance and probably could be taken care of by ordinance. Charter Conference August 24, 1978 Page 58 Mr. Zimmerman - Even with statutory duties, and it has been done in the past, sort of informally, but there could be something of statutory requirement now, by Charter. Mr. Sawyer - The interpretation that has been adhered to here in the City of Lansing, that as far as the prosecutorial power.of the office, there has to be an authorization and the authorization is only through the City Attorney not his deputy. At least my understanding is of the past, that's why it was a necessity to appoint an interim City Attorney even. Several spoke at one time. Mr. Sawyer - Going on to Boards and Commissions. This is a major ehang for us by Charter. On the whole structure of City government. The Charte enumerates three types of boards. An administrative board, a review boar and an advisory board. It states that the Board of Water and Light, unlike board is completely an administrative board, in terms of Board of Water an Light's functions. Review boards 'are boards that are not administrative or advisory, such as the Planning Board, Board of Review for tax appeals or zoning appeals. Advisory boards basically are all other boards that are set up, with the exception of certain executive or administrative functions that are set aside for the Police Board and the Fire Board and it should be noted that except for those two specific assignments functions, they are also only advisory. Now, the advisory boards are directed to provide for the general welfare and presumably give in-put to the departments through advice and assistance to the elected and appointed full-time city officials. I have got a question in my mind and I would like to get some in-put from the Commission whether , probably they did not intend that to exclude the Council from the advice of those boards and yet we have it interpreted up to now that Council members as not being full-time appointed or elected city officials. Several requested that this be again stated by the City Attorney. Mr. Sawyer - O. K. , I am going to 5-102 sub . 3. Stating that, "Advisory boards include boards, commissions and committees established by ordinance or this Charter and composed of citizens sharing the common goal of improving the general welfare through their advice and assistance to the elected and appointed full -time City officials. I guess I assume that was not a mandate that they restrict their advice to thatybut merely a statEment that they give advice generally to City officials. Mr. Walsh - The full-time refers to appointed, not. elected. The basic pattern is. and as we interviewed many board members. The process was pretty spotty. the pattern we have set, Steve, is designed to make sure that any issue that comes Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 59, from a department that has a board, to the City Council through the Mayor, darn well has the written recommendation of the advisory board. Because this is in fact then a recommendation to the City Council as well as the Mayor, on what they are doing. Our conclusion was that communication between boards and Council was not always very good,- at least as the boards perceived it. So that citizen input is on a policy and evaluation level, directed primarily at Council in the end run. Mr. Zimmerman - That's right. We put that right in there. Mr. Donnellan - Also, if you look at the beginning of the sentence, it says, "Advisory boards include" so it is possible to have an advisory board that is not an investigative board. Mr. Sawyer - You should note that there is an exclusion to the specific function of boards applicable to. the retirement board, i. e. retirement board is generally set up by ordinance now, it is no longer Charter established. Mr. Donnellan - There is another limitation, just for cross-reference. This is 1-401. 2. In the middle of that, page one. Talking about participating in inter-governmental agencies. 'Second sentence says, "The participation of the City in those organizations is not subject to the limitations of this Charter. So, the issue came up a number of times where the Charter Commission worked out this tri-county, this)' that and the other thing, and whether it has to follow this and the answer is not. Right? Which would probably be the answer under State Law. Mr. Sawyer,"Except as otherwise as provided by the Charter or State Law, the Mayor appoints all members, with the Advice and Consent of Council; . and no appointment is to be effective until Council has concurred in it. " All terms of boards established will be four years starting on July 1st, unless other- wise provided. The Mayor is mandated to establish and make public a procedure providing for either receiving applications or recommendations for candidates for appointment to membership on the boards. The Mayor is required to file a list of his appointments of boards prior to the first Council meeting in May of each year and Council is mandated to act on the appointment prior to the first meeting in June. If the vacancy is not filled 60, days after the occurrence of the vacancy, by the Mayor, Council will appoint a committee of three of its members to act instead of the Mayor. He will be making appointments, but that is only if he refuses to appoint, Mr. Baker - Whatever we don't confirm. • Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 60 Mr. Sawyer - If you refuse to confirm the way to operate would have to be a -Writ of man-damus. Mr. Donnellan - If it is not a vacancy, not an appointment to fill a vacancy, but rather an appointment for a new four year term and the Council does not act or the Mayor does not act. Mr. Baker - No, we are talking about the Council. Mr. Donnellan - O. K. The Council doesn't confirm, he can reappoint. A vacancy exists after July 1. Mr. Baker - In other %o rds, tie June date Ineri, ',s more advisory than 4 anything else because there is nothing that can happen to anyone if we 0 don't confirm, Mr. Donnellan - Those could be the two methods. Mandating the Council because they failed to do something they were directed to do, or, the procedure of the vacancy. Mr. Adado - Well, if we don't confirm somebody that he appoints, he has the right to appoint someone else. Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Donnellan - That's right. 4- Mr. Baker - No, no. What I am saying m is; he gives us his list of appointments. zo June 1st rolls around and we haven't bothered 4.0 L confirm' anybody. What happens? Mr. Hull - The other Charter says they stay on. Does this one have that provision? Mr. Baker - As of July 1st, there is obviously going to be a vacancy for zn those appointees. Mr. Adado - Yeah. But under the old Charter, until such time as we acted, they stayed on. Mr. Baker - Well let's say there was a vacancy. These were new appointments that had never been on a board before. And we didn't confirm by the Ist of June. What happens? Mr. Adado - You appoint so-neone new and 90' days expire and we don't take any action on that confirmation. That's still a vacancy. Mr. Baker - It says that we have to . . . It says we 'shall' confirm by the 1st of June. I say, what happens if we don't? Are we all eight in violation Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 61 of the Charter and subject to fines and penalties? Mr. Sawyer - One argument that could be made, I'm not sure whether it supports the intention of the Commission or not, would be under sub-7 of that section. That w;,)-ald be to interpret that a vacancy is occuring at the point of the expiration of the last term. Which would be if no confirmation took place by July 1st. And if you interpreted that as being a vacancy within the meaning within Sub. 7, then if the vacancy is not filled within 60 days after that, or two months later, Council appoints a committee of three persons to act in place of the Mayor in making the appointment. Mr. Baker - What if Council doesn't confirm? Mr. Sawyer - Presumably if Council picks somebody, appoints three members to pick somebody Mr. Baker - No. What we are saving is if Council doesn't confirm. The Mayor has sent down appointments. Mr. Adado - We don't confirm anybody and we don't appoint anybody, you just said you have a vacancy and that board doesn't function. Mr. Hull - The Mayor sends us a list, right? And we get it by May Ist. Alright. June Ist rolls around and he has sent us a list of 50 appointees and we confirm 45 of them, there are five left. These five people were all on boards and this is a reappointment to the same board, the same seat the same everything. The Council has never acted. It is now July 2nd. There is a vacancy. Mr. Donnellan - I think there is a vacancy because there is no -specific language 1_� ,-� allowing the person to hold over, but I point out that there W:) uld only be two vacancies or two expirations per board, per year. Mr. Hull - It might be five different appointees and it might be five different boards. Mr. Baker - The point I arn trying to raise is what will happen to Council if it doesn't act by the Ist of June. Mr. Adado - It's a violation of the Charter. Mr. Baker - What are they going to do, put you in jail ? Mr. g Sawyer - He conceivably could et a writ of mandamus to get a court y 1� order to act or be held in contempt of court. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 62 Mr. Baker - That is the question I have been asking.. Mr. Hull - Let me pose this question too, there is another rather unique thing that occurs. Suppose there is a vacancy occurs. Sixty days passes and we haven't received an appointment. Council says 'we ought to fill this job.' Appoints a three member committee to proceed to fill it. They work for two days and they decide that they are going to appoint Joe Smith. The Mayor, or whoever it may be at the time says, "I don't like Joe Smith, I like Mary Brown. Mr. Zimmerman It is too late. He doesn't have any choice. Mr. Sawyer - At that point it is too late. Mr. Hull - After the Council has .acted . . . . Mr. Adado - After the 60 days he cannot appoint. Mr. Baker - There is another thing that could very easily arise. Now that we are going, to have an even numbered Council. Sends down Joe Smuck ! Four of the Council members thing he's the greatest thing since beans and the other four Council members think he's just really a smock.. So you hang up 4 to 4 past the lst of June. Mr. Sawyer - That's the potential of this Charter on any tie vote or problem. Some charters provide for a casting vote by the presiding member or some member. Mr. Baker - But getting back to what you said, you would go for a writ of man- damas. But the thing is the Council can't break it's tie Mr. Hull - You've acted, but you haven't actually confirmed. You must have five votes to confirm and if Council ties four to four that is failure to confirm. Mr. Adado - Then he can't hold you in contempt and it is a failure to confirm and he has to appoint somebody else. Mr. Baker - That's the answer to my questions. Mr. Sawyer - O. K. , to be noted that the boards established by Charter and are the only ones established by the Charter -are required to have the one member from each ward distribution an.] rour at large distribution, as has been the case of prior boards. They are req,-iired to be residents of the city Mr. Donnellan - Also in point . 11, modifies what you said, Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 63' Mr. Sawyer - Right. It says, 'An ordinance creating a board, commission, or committee may set forth a different size for the body or a different length of term for the members than required in this section if the Council finds that the change is appropriate. Also, the boards also proposes policies and programs and submit them to t'-- Council and the mayor. Advisory boards may do that. They have made prc vision for the continuation of all existing boards, at least pending further ac and the terms of all people who are serving now will continue, in accordant with it. Again, limitations of the powers of the buard:� will co;.7tinue now, expressly in Section 108, the Board of. Water and Light has the administrative, executi and policy making authority all over the operation of city utilities but that nc Zn other board, commission or committee shall exercise any administrative appointive or policy making authority except as expressly permitted in the Charter or required by State law, Again, that tracks to the general concept of change set forth in this Charter. .Then Chapter 2 goes a great deal into the restriction and powers and restriction of powers of the Board of Water and Light. Mr. Baker - With what you just read, read 5-201 now. Mr. Hull - Specifically the last sentence stating the board shall. Mr. Sawyer - O. K. "The Board shall be responsible to the Mayor and the City Council for the provision of these services in a manner consistent with the best practices." Mr. Baker - What does responsible mean? Mr. Sawyer - That's a good question. To be honest, I wondered when I read it. The administrative control is clearly placed in the Board of Water and Light and the responsibility outlined there is at best a general one. Presumably, that might lead to a right of action by the Mayor of the City against the Board of Water and Light to force them, obtain an order forcing them to cease and decease in some practice that is clearly against accepted practices and things of that sort. Beyond that I would hesitate to hang very much power or authority on the Board of Water and Light over there with legal matters. Mr. Zimmerman - That's right. Mr. Baker - Let's talk about a more practical matter. The Board of Water and, Light raises the rates of one of the utilities. Cou-i,il and the Mayor feel Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 64 unanimously, that this is simply an irresponsible act. If they are responsible to us we tell them not to do that. Where are we? Mr. Zimmerman - Section 5-205 point . 1 and . 2, I don't think you have any choice. Mr. Baker - But 5-201 says they are responsible to us. Does that mean something? Mr. Donnellan - No. They, as a group, they are a board, you have appointed them. The Mayor has nominated 'them. You as the Council have approved them. They are going to cone ba^k to you- This language says, when they come, back to you you can say, ''Hey, what about what happened last May? " Mr. Baker - That's the problem though. We are responsible to the electorate. We are responsible for recall. That is what I understand responsibility to mean. If you have to repq.rt to somebody.. That somebody is ultimately responsible to what happens to you for what your actions are. O. K. ? Now, saying that re- sponsibility here doesn't mean anything doesn't comport with my common sense of understanding of what 'responsible' means , Discussion on responsibility being very difficult to define. Mr. Zimmerman - Under your concept too Dick (Baker) under those rates, with everything that is said under rates, that is so specific, you wouldn't have anything to say. Miss Nancy Baker - I think the City Attorney came closer to what I recall from our discussion, where our interest was really, if something were to come up where the interest of the City was affected by something that was going on with the Board, then we wanted to identify who was responsible to the electorate to see that that practice didn't continue. We are really talking about something obviously in the best interest of the City. Mr. Dick Baker - Rates ? Mr. Adado - This addresses that is right in the Charter. The Board may fix, adjust reasonable rates it may deem advisable for services furnished by the Board of Water and Light. Mr. Baker - Well, let's say it is a quarter for 100 cubic feat of water and it goes. uo to $1. 00 . . . . Mr. Sawyer - The powers d legated to the Board of Water and Light here are extensive both in administrative and executive, policy areas. They have their own budget power and a number of other things. Practically speaking, you are Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 65 talking about going to court if they just say, "We are not going to do it. " It would be my feeling that the Court would be very hesitant as to clear abuse to take action. Second guessing. If you show clear abuse then I am sure you might have an ability to because they do have a duty to the people as a whole, the tax payers. Mr. Donnellan - I would point out that the language isn't mere surplusage because these people have to come back before you. This language clearly indicates that you have the right and duty to ask the right questions, eithe r when they come back before you or during the year. That they are not absc autonomus. It is that they have been given the great deal of discretion and 1 review power of. the Council and Mavor is extremely limited. But that doe: mean that they are not responsible to the elected officials of the City. Mr. Baker - You've said we don't have any power but they are responsible to us ? Mr. Donnellan - Look. No. Mr. Baker That's alright, I understend, Mr. Adado - O. K. , go ahead Steve. We could spend all night on that board of water and light. Mr. Sawyer - A couple of constraints there, the Council does have the six votes to approve the sale of any of their real property, which continues on. They are required to set up policies and procedures to assure both fairness in procure- ment of property, both personal and . . . . Mr. Baker - Could we go back to this ? All of this talks about the sale of property. Mr. Adado - The purchase, not the sale. Purchase of. property_. --"_"Mr.--"Sawyer - It all deals with the sale of property. Mr. Donnellan - Well, no. j l Mr. Sawyer - Point . 2 under 5-203 enpowers the Board to acquire both personal and real property. He should note, however,. that Council approval seems only to be required For the sale of property not the purchase of property. Mr. Baker - Now, is that what you intended:? Mr. Walsh - Yes. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 66 Mr. Baker - So, they can purchase anything they want,but they can only dispose if we give an O. K. ? Discussion by several all at once. Mayor Graves - Let me ask a question. The State Law says the Planning Department will prepare the Capitol Improvements. This says the Board of Water and Light will submit the Capitol Improvements to the Mayor. Do they go through the same route then as the regular Capitol improvements? Mr. Zimmerman - Pursuant to Section 7-109 on it Mayor. Our intent was to try to have some Capitol Improvements worked into the over-all budget and have some consistency in it all, happening at one time. 1� Mayor Graves - My question is when they come to the Mayor's budget committee. Does Capitol Improvement plans they submitted part of the budget process? Several all spoke at once. Mr. Mayor - That would only tell us how we would function, Public Service and other s would function with what they . . . . Mr. Zimmerman - The intent is, so that they are not off tearing up the str or doing something inconsistent with what your Captiol Improvements prog might be. Mr. Donnellan - Councilman Hull said, that means you won't get any infori That is a clear mandate. They would be very unwise to . . . Mr. Adado - They get thi_ information, but what Councilman Hull means is this is all we do is to receive the information. We are a receiving body of Board of Water and Light. Mr. Hull - And often we receive it after the fact. And, let me tell you unless you work with those yo-yos for a while they can't understand the frustration. Mr. Donnellan - It would have to be the Capitol Improvements Plan for the next six years. Mr. Baker - What you are saying is though, is that. they could buy the Midland nuclear plant if they have enough ready cash on hand and didn't have to bond for it. Mr. Walsh - We didn't see that problem arising because it appeared to us that they would never have that much cash. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 67 Mr, Adado How many millions would they need? Mr. Walsh A hundred, I think. Mr. Adado About the time they accumulate 100 million dollars in some slush fund over there - - - Jonesie will be on them. Mr. Zimmerman - The intent was just so that you would have awareness s that whenyou put in your budget when you are putting your budget togei That there would be some coordination. Mr. Adado - On Capitol Improverm nts. Mr. Zimmerman - Right. Mr. Adado - They can't dispose of any property without our O. K. Mr. Sawyer - They are to adopt all procedures to assure fairness in securing personal property and disposing of personal property. Those are the parallel policies for procedures adopted by Council for such things, unless the Board makes a specific findim-, that the City policy is not in the best practices for them ID as a utility. They prepare their own budget and submit it to the Mayor. Also, they are required to submit Mayor Graves That is only informational. Mr. Sawyer - Informational. They file it actually with the Clerk. They submit to the Mayor prior to October 1st each year, their Capitol Improvements plan for the next six years. That's specifically required. They are also required to allow the use of streets, bridges, etc. , they are required to compensate the City for the cost of the portion of the annual audit by the oi-,'side auditor of their particular operations. Generally the set up for withdrawals , deposit of funds, with the City Treasury continues, though Council may set up by ordinance for the procedures for disbursement of money by the Board of Water and Light by check issued by the Secr&ary of their own Board, if it so desires. The Board is given, under Rates, all rate making power subject to the re- quirement that they conduct a public hearing and 27ile things with the Clerk. C) Mr. Baker - Come back to . 4. What will constitute the Board making a Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 68 (Mr. Baker continues) specific finding of City policy if the procedure is not consistent with the best practices of the public utility operation? Mr. Donnellan - All it means is.that they are suppose to justify doing some- thing different than is general City procedure. Mr. Baker - To themselves. Mr. Donnellan - But, indirectly to the public. Mr. Baker - That is that responsibility thing again. right? Mr. Hull - Irresponsible. Mr. Sawyer- You should -note, under Collection and Hearing Procedure, upon request of the Board, the City Council is required to prbvide by ordinance for the collection of unpaid charges for utility services The Board is required, under sub-section . 3 to provide a procedure for the resolution of disputes . . . customer disputes, and in that it is required to incorporate the designation of an independent hearinc, officer, who is to hear tD and report to both the Mayor and the Board, on the results of each hearing that he conducts. The Board is also required toxeport its final action on any unresolved dispute, together with the hearing officers report and recommendations to the Mayor and City Council. They are not required to abide by what the hearing officer may recommend though. O. K. , skipping to the Board of Police Commissioners Mr. Adado - Shirley (Sliker) has her hand up Steve. Mrs. Shirley Sliker - I am just referring back to 5404 and 5-105, Organi of Boards, Rules and Procedures, still apply to the Board of Water and L Because" they cannot meet the same time as Council. Mr. Adado - What were those sections? Mrs. Sliker - 5-104 and 5-105, on page 10. Mr. Walsh - Well, 5-105. 3 says, "The rules of boards shall state the schedule of regular meetings, the schedule shall not conflict with regular meetings of City Council. Mr. Baker O. K. , then, their rules of proced--ire we have to approve? Mrs. Sliker Right. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 69 Mr. Hull - We don't approve them meeting from 1:00 A. M. to 3:00 A. M. Mr. Zimmerman - Not only that, the entire rules. That is an interesting thing. Mr. Baker - Their rules, right? Several answered - Yes. Mr. Baker - Who selects the independent hearing officer? Mr. Zimmerman - The Board does and they set their own wages because they control their own budget. Mr. Baker - The independent hearing officer, if that is going to be procedure, 0 1 would assume that that procedure would nave to come through City Council ?n also.? Mr. Zimi-herman No. Mr. Adado Not under the rules. That is under a specific section. Several spoke at one time and several read sections aloud. Mr. Walsh - Well Dick (Baker) the ending process of the resolution resolving thing winds up with a report.. with a full record, with you and the Mayor. Mr. Baker - I thought that was neat. The only time we get involved in Board -things is when, the first line. I s when we can get hurt. The only time they want us in their affairs is when we can get a black eye. I saw that right away. Mrs. Sliker They didn't want you in it. Mr. Baker - Don't think they didn't. Mr. Walsh - No they didn't. Mr. Sawyer - I would like to note that there is still a three-fifths vote of the public requirement disposing if they need it for the operation of the Board of Water and Light. That would say selling the power plant that they need the out-put of, to Consumer's Power, and to buy-back arangement, for instance, without the public approving it by a three-fifths vote, Mr. Blair - Run that past me again. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 70 Mr. Sawyer - The Board of Water and Light is prohibited from selling anything for their operations without a three-fifths vote of the public, the voters. That is to distinguish from earlier proposals talking about a property that isn't needed for their operations. I just as an example, threw out, that they couldn't sell Consumer's Power, or some other power company, their power plant that they needed the out-put from to serve the City, without putting it to the vote of three-fifths of the people. Mr. Baker - Let's go back one. Let's say that they are selling so much power out of their power plant, they didn't sell the power plant. They are selling so much power out of there, which they are now able to do, but it necessitates 'wilding another power plant because they do-Vt have enough generating Dower to serve Lansing's needs. That is selling something. They are selling power through the network. Mr. Sawyer - You could interpret it that way. Electricity has been held to good for some purposes, in terms of a universial commercial code and other C things. Mr. Baker -. Taking it one step further. Are you basically saying then, that ID in order for them to sell electrical power to Consumer's Power, that the City Council has to approve that? Or that the electorate has to -approve that? Mr. Sawyer No I am not. Mr. Adado He's selling - they are selling property, not a product. They n tD can't sell a aeneratincr unit that is needed to generate electrical power for the citizens without first getting approval from them of three-fifths of the vote. Mr. Hull - But they can rent it? Mr. Adado - Rent it out to them? Mr. Hull - Yes, that is in effect what they are doing. Mr. Donnellan - The question is whether what they are selling is needed for the continued operation of the Board of Water and Light and selling a little extra electricity would be hard to make that out . Mr. Baker - If it was a little extra extra electricity I guess that would be one thing. There is a paper setting over in 'he flouse of Representatives that says in fact that they are selling gross amounts or electricity and that is one reason they need new generating power is that they want to sell even more. Mr. Donnellan - That's an issue then. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 71 Mr. Sawyer The key distinction there Dick (Baker) would be whether that power they are selling is needed for their own operation, as Mr. Donnellan pointed out. Mr. Baker - The key distinction is that they may be building power plants for Consumer's power with tax payers tax free dollars. That's the distinction. That is why I am asking the questions here because we talked about selling I something and taking three-fifths majority of the voters, is that in fact . . . Mr. Donnellan - I'm saying it could be. You have a good point. It is some- thing I haven't even thought of and I am sure the Board of Water and Light didn't think of it when it was in fron t of the Charter Commission, because they would have said something. Mr. Sawyer - Moving on to Board of Police Commissioners. Board of Police Commissioners is established by Charter which means it hooks into the eight member requirement set forth earlier and also the required residency require- ment. Four at large and one from each ward distribution. The Board is mandated to establish administrative rules for the organization and overall administration of the department, including promotional training procedures, inconsultation with both the Mayor and the Chief of Police. And that is a pretty broad brand of administrative power for the Board. It should be noted also , presumably so that there would be no misunderstanding about it the extent those rules may be deemed to be rules of procedure for them. They are exempt from the requirement that they be given to me and approved as to form and filed with the Clerk and approved by City Council also. Mr. Baker - They don't have to do that? Mr. Sawyer That's right. They can put them into effect themselves. Mr. Walsh - By filing them with the Clerk, which makes them a public record, Mr. Sawyer That's right. Mr. Baker - Could I go back for just one last thing to the Board of Water and Light. It says they shall have the authority to settle litigation, involving the Board of Water and Light. Mr. Sawyer - That's correct. Mr. Baker - It's our attorney? Mr. Donnellan - No, it is an attorney that the Council at some point in time approves. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 72 Mr. Adado It is a Deputy City Attorney, that is paid for by the Board of Water and Light. Mr. Donnellan - You've approved at some point in time. Mr. Adado Way back. Mr. Blair But wo will have to approve it again now that the new Charter goes into effect? Mr. Donnellan - That could be. I haven't really thought about it at any extent, but it is entirely possible that t,iz.- Council and City Attorney have to reapprove, it is entirely possible. But, I haven't really resolved it in my own mind. Mr. Sawyer - The Board also (Policy ;hall approve rules and regulations for the conduct of the members of the Department in consultation with the Chief of Police and the Mayor. They are to establish procedures for receiving complaints concerning the operation of the department. They are to review the budget of the department before it goes to the Mayor. The final authority in the C> City in imposing and reviewing discipline of the department employees, con- sistent with State law and collective bargaining contracts. That is important to know because it is dfferent than the procedure would otherwise be. They are required also to render an annual report to the Mayor and City Council. Also, they, like the City Council are given the power where it relates to their own affairs, and 4 �s necessary, to subpoena witnesses for conducting investigations. Someone ask The Board does? Mr. Sawyer The Board can subpoena. Mr. Baker - Who can they subpoena? Mr. Sawyer - Anybody, I guess, whose testimony or evidence is reasonably necessary to carry out their assigned duties. There is that limitation on it. They couldn't hire in somebody to testify on the financial affairs of the C*,,L-y, I guess. Mr. Baker - How about the Mayor or Council? Mr. Adado - Can flne-\, subpoena Councilmen? Mr. Sawyer - They could conceivably also sul,-)poena the Mayor or Courit.:J 1 :nen. Mr. Donnellan) - If they want never to be reappointed they could do that. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 73 Mr. Sawyer - Basically this will abbreviate things the Fire Board has the same grant of powers exactly in relation to their functions. Mr. Donnellan - Except no investigatory powers. Mr. Sawyer - Right. Shirley Sliker - And collective bargaining powers prevail. Mr. Sawyer - Collective bargaining contracts, under Michigan law, supersede any provision of our Charter. At least it must in the provisions mandated by the Home Rules statute. Going on - Chapter 5 establishes a Board of Ethics for establishing the conduct and a general statement, I think, of the intent of the Board and what it is to deal with and standards. It is generally that employees be independent a:Id impartial and responsible people and all that. The Board of Ethics is to consist of me, as City Attorney, the City Clerk and three public members appointed by the City Council. City Council will have to think in terms of moving fairly quickly to appoint those three members. One for a term of one year, one two years and one three years. Then there will be one reappointed each year by City Council. It should be n,)ted that those peode be required to be residents of the City of Lansing and are specifically prohibited from being City Officials or employees of the City of Lansing. It additionally states that the Board of Ethics, once created, will select its own presiding officer which will be from among the appointed ---nembers rather than the Clerk or Mayor. The duties of the Board of Ethics is . . .they are required to or rather they may render an advisory opinion to any person with respect to meeting their application of the provisions of the Charter or other wise, establishing standards of conduct for officers or employees. They are to be published but in a manner least likely reveal the identy of the person concerned, Board of Ethics is also empowered to recommend to Council standards of conduct for officers or employe'es of the City and changes in the procedures related to the administration and enforcement of those standards. They will be requ,.red to review, at least annually, documents filed under ordinances adopted by the City which would refer to reports required of City Officers when they have conflict of interest or financial affairs, direct or indirect affairs, involving the City. Going along and in the same manner of concern, under the head g Protection Of Public Interest, 5-504, the City Council is required to adopt by ordinance, such standards for the conduct of public affairs as may be. deamed necessary to the conduct code to protect the public and the City is suppose to provide by ordinance no more than one year after the effective date of this Charter, a restriction similar to those enacted by the State of Michi(ran, by statutes, describing stendard-: of con..--iuct for public employees. I should poin� ou" that the connection with Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 74 restrictions on contracts with municipalities. There is a State statute which proports to be the sole standard to be applied to the State so they will be talking about other standards here. Mr. Donnellan - If the new Statute goes through then that will be repealed. Mr. Adado - You mean this one? Mr. Donnellan - No. It will affect this because the standard that you compare with will be different, but the City Attorney pointed out, you are prohibited from having anything to deal with public contracts except the State statute. They tried to repeal that state statute it was stricken down by theSupreme Court, and they are going to try again in a bill that is suppose to be enacted this year by the House and Senate. It hasn't been enacted by either one yet. Mr. Sawyer - You should note that any violation of an ordinance, this relates back to earlier when Mr. Donnellan was talking about forfeiture of office. It is provided here that any violation of ordinances dealing with those matters, i. e. , conduct of officials, should be punishable to the maximun extent permitted by law and may be made punishable by forfeiture of office. Now that is non mandi- tory and gives Council the option, if it wishes to really put the oration in this ordinance when they pass it, to actually require under certain circumstances or all circumstances, that a punishment of forfeiture be imposed. This would be a violation of the standard of conduct and ethic set up by the ordinances required here. It does not, however, require that Council mandate that. Mr. Baker - Earlier in the Charter it says that it takes six votes of Council to excuse someone from conflict of interest. Mr. Adado - Conflict of interest comes down in the next one, Mr. Baker - Now wait a minute. The ethics ordinance, very likely, will state what is a conflict of interest, expect that it would -cover that in some way, manner-or form. We are elected officials also. If a. person deems himself to be in a conflict of interest, according to the ordinance adopted by the Council, but Council refuses to excuse that person from voting and they don't vote then they are in conflict with the Charter. The Charter requires them to vote if they aren't excused. Mr. Adado - Can you have an ordinance that con'llicts with the Charter? Mr. Donnellan - No. Mr. Baker If you -can't round up six or the seven voting members to excuse him, or . . . the majority of the voting members to excuse him. Mr. Donnellan - No. There are two differen sections. You have to read Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 75 the sections on voting very, very carefully, Because it doesn't say what you think it says. And, in any event a person has to make their own judgement as to whether he is in conflict of interest, but if they have the support of a formal determination, either of the rest of the Council that is voting on the question, or they have the support of th*e standards of the Board of Ethics, then they could not really be guilty of violating an ordinance. If they are acting in complete good faith in trying to carry out their duties. It would not be in violation of these ordinances that are being adopted. Someone - Or the Charter? Mr. Donnellan - Or the Charter. Mr. Sawyer - Going on under Conflict of Interest with the officer or employee who intends to have dealings with the City, either directly or indirectly, or who may derive any income or benefits, either directly or indirectly in addition to official remuneration is suppose to file an affidavit with the City Clerk giving the details of whatever that may be, at least 10 days prior to whatever the action is that he may have the direct or indirect benefit from. Those are, among other things, what they are referringto the Board of Ethics being required to examine Ine every year. Again it states, if an officer or employee has any other conflicts aside from that, between a personal interest and a public interest as defined by State law, and that is quite broad, is to fully disclose to the. City Attorney the nature of the conflict. It further provides, except as provided by law, no elective officer, appointee or employee of the City can participate in, vote upon any action . . . vote upon any act upon any matter if a conflict exists. The Planning Board is preserved and is delegated to the statutory powers that don't necessarily have to be delegated to it but have in the past. The City Council is to nominate two of its members as ex officio members of the Board without a vote. The powers are the ones granted by the statute and in addition to the review powers is an advisory board to the Planning Department. Again, the other side has expressed here that the Board is entitled to supportive services -of the Planning Department in evaluating and preparing any proposal. Review and make recommendations on the Planning Departments draft of the Capitol Improvement Plan , also prior to its submission to the Mayor and is to develop and maintain a Master Plan. Mr. Baker - Would you have someone from the Charter Commission explain why you assigned two members of Council as ex officio members? Mr. Donnellan It is in the existing Charter. Mayor Graves No different than we have now. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 76 Mr. Baker They have never appointed anybody since I've been on Council. Mr. Zimmerman - Oh, it is in the existing Charter now. Mr. Baker - But, we have never done R. Mr. Baker - We've never appointed anybody. Mr. Zimmerman - The interesting thing that happens on this too. As you are reading this now. I've spent a lot of time on it and all of you have. I question whether the existing Charter has been read as thoroughly as this Charter has ZD been read tonight by any city official for the last five years, or maybe more than that. Mr. Adado - It was read eight years ago. Mr. Zimmerman - Yeah, when you ran for office. Mr. Baker - Well, I would still ask you, why did you continue it on? Mr. Adad o - You are an ex officio member just as I -am an ex officio member of the Police Board and Fire Board, a non voting. Mr. Donnellan - This provision is a Charter Amendment adopted August 7, 1973, there was a fair amount of discussion. There was some different proposals in some earlier proposals that went before the public and some people came in and wanted one of the things that laid heavily with the Charter Commission, was when there was a recent amendment to the Charter, it indicated the recent will of the people. So they were heavily persuaded anytime there had been some recent action by the Mr. Baker - But there wasn't any specific law suit? Mr. Donnellan - There was consideration. The other argument was that the Council had to act on recommendations of the Planning Board and -there should be some intercommunication that the Planning Board, like any Planning Board ZD ?n or Commission, is exercising some legislative type responsibilities and tney should be in communication. Mr. Adado It would be more important now since there is no parallel comm- ittee than . . . . Mr. B axer They didn't do it for any of the other Boards, and that is what throws me. . Mr. Adado That's because it is the one standing committee that we have to have. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 77 Mr. Zimmerman - Yes but you are taking legislative action, just as other boards, such as adopting ordinances, changing zoning classifications, Capitol Improvements plan, budgets. Mr. Baker - You require people that appointed to boards to file an annual report. Are the two ex officio members of the Planning Board required to file a report to Council at the end of each year on what they did? Mr. Zimmerman - I don't think it was to be considered. Shirley Sliker - No. Mr. Baker - O. K. , what about people who are appointed to tri-county regional planning Mr. Donnellan - That's under 1-401, and they are required to file an annual report. Mr. Adado - Not members of the Planning Board, the ex officio members are not required to file a report. They could have some input that they want . . . The only thing, they attend the meetings, they can have the discussion, they just don't have the power to vote. Nancy Baker - The distinction too is that the City Boards are required to make the annual report,but when you are talking about the regional bodies, then the burden of reporting back is with the individual. Mr. Walsh - Dick, the rational . When the Planning Board is involved in developing a Master Plan, as well as the Capitol Improvement Budget, some intercommunication with Council and what its thinking is we thought rather important. So we provided that language. Mr. Adado - The hour is getting late. It is five after eleven, continue Steve. Mr. Sawyer - O. K. , going to the City Employees, Merit System, there is a big change here in terms of its Charter and i-equirements. It requires the City by ordinance to establish a personnel merit system that meets the social, economic and program needs of the City of Lansing. That the ordinances provide procedures to recruit, select, develop and maintain an effective work force. The Board of Water and Light is exempt from that and so are the appointees of the M iyor, which would be the department heads. The City Cou-ncil and the Internal Auditor, also. The Chief personnel officer, who will be desig- nated by the Mayor, is to provide for the possibility that we might not have a personnel department, presumably, as opposed to a section. Is mandated to determine by competitive examination exclusive on the basis of merit and ability and efficiency the qualifications of all candidates for the positions within the Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 78 Personnel Merit System; make, promulgate and distribute rules and regulations, and administer all conditions of employment within the Personnel Merit System, which means salaried, fringe benefits and things of that sort. It additionally requires that all persons hired by the City, other than those exempted ie. , appointees by the Mayor and Council, the Internal Auditor, be processeci through the office of personnel and that theChief Personnel Officer is responsible again . In For evaluating the level of compentency of each candidate against standards established prior to the evaluation. Now that will probably require clear state- ment of standards for every job. It requires competitive examination. Frankly, I am not sure how that will be done in the case of hiring new lawyers. I have never heard of an examination for lawyers before. I will leave that to personnel since it is their problem. That will require quite a bit of change in our Personnel Department, the hiring operations and policies and I suppose somebody could say that hiring is suppose to be like competitive examination, exclusively on merit, efficiency and ability that this might hamper Affirmative Action and other programs, you have to view programs mandated by constitution and state law as superceding any restrictive requirements by Charter. I just say that in case somebody ever points that out. On labor management activities, the Mayor is given over-all responsibility for labor negotiations of the City and is empowered designate the chief labor negotiator of the Citv, however, only with the ad-vice and consent of Council. The Labor Negotiator serves at the pleasure of the Mayor Which means that though he needs Council's consent in choosing the person, if they should be dissatisfied and does not he does not need Council's consent in terminating his activities. All collective bargaining contracts, in other words, the ultimate result of the bargaining process are required to be ratified by Council before they become effective. So council, as far as that contractural arrangement, has very specific powers of approval by Charter. Discussion by several, The Chief Personnel Officer, again, is responsible for implementing the terms of the contract. Mr. Donnellan - It should be perfectly obvious that nothing prohibits the Mayor from designating the Chief Personnel Officer as the chief labor negotiator. Mr. Sawyer - No.. of course not. He can appoint anyone he wants. I guess I see a slig1rit ambiguity, not a serious one here as far as my mind, toward the Police and [iire systems in that those are now incorporated within our collective bargainin-Y contracts . by reference, rather than bein-5 Charter or ordinance created and yet they pro,)OrL to he ad.-ministered ':)y a Personnel Board. I interpre, that as lhein' that h , adrn;nistors the su )Ject of their terms, Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 79' Mr. Adado What did he say Dick? Laughter by most and aluding to the fact that they had three attorneys present. Mr. Sawyer - Discrimination against employees or applicant for employment I is prohibited on all of the grounds. Although they skipped height and weight the State statute mandates the same thing though. 1� The City is mandated by Council by Charter, as well as by numerous other laws, to take affirmative action for the recruitment and advancement of members of groups underrepresented. The important thing of this mandate is the level that it has set up basically as a Charter mandated goal, if you wish to look at it that way. Is the percentage of population representation within the City of Lansing. Which, at least to minority groups is most probably a higher percentage than federal law might require since federal cases seem to be looking to S. M. S. A. quite often. And we have a greater concentration, I believe, of most minority 7 groups within the city limits than the S. M. S. A. Taxation and Finance, the Mayor is mandated to audit before the fourth Monday in March of each year and submit to the City Council a proposal for an annual estimate of all revenues, i. e. , the budget. And, an annual approp- riation of expenditures. The Council is to adopt the City wide . . . adopt the statement of city wide budget of policies inquiries each year and transmit it to the Mayor no later than October Ist. The intent of that , presumably, is to get it to the Mayor a statement of policy priorities to guide him in the prepar- ation of the budget. Mr. Zimmerman - I think a couple of years ago you started that didn't you? Mr. Walsh - Yes, right after we started talking about it. Laughter about this remark and discussion about when this was started. 'Mr. Sawyer - The Mayor's budget message will set forth the numerous types of information that is set forth in the Charter. I am not going to enumerate. The budget for the Mayor, together with all his point scheduled inforimtio-.-I and his reports and messages will be I presume that refers to recommendations of City Boards and other things, but I am not sure, are to be published public record and reviewed Vy the Council Committee of the Whole and a public hearing on the annual appropriations is required and no later than the third Monday in May of each year the Council shall adopt the budget for she ensuing year. Mr. Baker - What if we don't? Mr. Adado - His budget takes effect. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 80 Most Charter Commission members replied, "No". Mr. Donnellan - This is the same language as the existing Charter. Mr. A dado - So what happens ? Mr. Blair - Payless paydays. Mr. Adado - What happens? Mr. Zimmerman - We had a City Attorney's Opinion that I guess that everybody has always assumed that the Mayor's budget cret will take effect, but, what was it, we had an opinion that it would not, really. Mr. Walsh - You wouldn't have any city taxes. Mr. Zimmerman - You wouldn't have any budget. Mr. Donnellan - The thrust of the opinion was that it was impossible for a budget to take effect without legislative action because of the Home Rule Cities Act. So, we wrestled with this and it created a lot of problems trying to cone up with a device that might have that legislative action. Finally we decided that we would live with the existing Charter language. Mr. Baker - You would just have no millage. It would be 20 percent of the revenue. It doesn't bankrupt the City. Mr. Sawyer - It should be pointed out that the tax rate is established basically by establishing the budget and allocating it over the assessed -valuation for the year, though not having it by that date wouldn't be fatal to that, having the budget established by one point that that had to be sent in would result in zero millage. Mr. Baker - Which is 20 percent of the budget. Mr. Sawyer - Approximately, yes. Mr. Hull -So if the budget is reduced by 20 percent? Mr. Sawyer - It should be noted in 7*-106, and this is a new provision, in the Charter, that there is to . . , any item which has the effect of appropriating money, which would of a)urse include the budget as well as other resolutions that might accomplish transfers and other things, the Mayor has an "Item" Uem" veto power. Mr. Baker - The legislature groups things so the Governor can't veto. How do they bunch those? Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 81 Mr. Adado I don't know. We'll get Councilman Hull to find out for us. Mr. Hull - I know how. Mr. Sawyer - The legislative power is budget and appropriation as under 7-107, in that no money may be drawn from the Treasury of the City except in accordance with appropriations for that purpose or except as provided by this section. That section does exempt the Board of Water and Light from that, of course, and additionally it allows minor adjustments among the appropriations for departments without the necessity of going back to Council. Specifically where an agency, which is a d.visioin, or d-fpartment or whatever it is set up, as an unencumbered appropriation balance, under any heading, that would be my interpretation. The Mayor is empowered on his own to authorize additional spending for approved purposes within the total appropriation of the agency. But that expenditure is not allowed to exceed .15 percent of Council's appropriation being added or $5, 000 , whichever is the least. So five thousand dollars is the maximun adjustment power the Mayor would have under that provision. Presumably, the idea of that is that this is a minor amount and just avoids a lot of minor things that Council might have to do otherwise. It is also important to note sub-section . 4 of that and that is that it is specifically stated that the appropriation of money by Council does not constitute a mandate to spend the money. Laughter by several suggesting that 'rarely do they send it back. Mr. Sawyer - It provides for supplemental appropriations through the year as before and is subject to two-thirds majority vote of Council, if not done by budget, which takes only a majority vote to approve. Mr. Baker - One question. The Council could mandate that the appropriated money be spent? Right? Mr. Sawyer - I am not prepared to answer that question. That is a pretty tough call. Mr. Baker - Could we pass a separate resolution mandating that they spend? C. I am thinking of all those that those funds that Nixon scurried away for awhile until Congress finally passed the thing saying, ''You will spend those funds. " Mr. Doniellan The Federal Constitution does not have language such as point . 4. So I would agree that there would ':)e some serious questions whether you could mandate the expenditure of money. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 82 Mr. Baker Do you think-there is a serious question if we could mandate it? Mr. Donnellan - Yes, I think there is a very serious question. But, if you have a specific type'issue, maybe it would be appropriate to mandate the spending of it. Mr. Zimmerman I guess the two choices we had whether or not . . . the setting of a budget you could -mandate for spending as opposed to not spending, we prefer the not spending. Laughter by several in agreement. Mr. Sawyer - Remember too Councilman, sometimes you can't mandate the expenditure of funds, you can mandate that certain things be done or provided by ordinance, which in turn would require the expenditure of money. Mr. Baker - Say we appropriate 400, 000 dollars and say that it be done to purchase a building. M3ayor Graves - Suppose it only comes to 300, 000. Do you give them the four? Mr. Baker - No, but lets say that it does come to 400, 000. Mr. Sawyer - As a rule you can't say this, in all fairness, without a specific situation to deal with and even then . . . . Mr. Adado - I can't understand why we would want to mandate spending. Discussion by several on the TISH Amendment Mr. Saywer - Taking the assessed value of the total property of the City, Z) TISH will have the overall effect of reducing their overall debt limit by 50 percent. We will still, I believe, be under it, but it will probably have a substantial impact on the ability of the City to buy for future Capitol improve- ments and may have an impact on its overall . . . Mr. Baker - Can we have a referendum permitting this to go over this Charter limit? Mr. Sawyer - You would have to have a Charter amendment. There are however, I would note, there are certain types of bonds that are exempt from that limit, including building authority bonds. Mr. Zimmerman - Most of these tax sections are right out of the existing Charter. Conference on Charter August .24, 1978 Page 83 Mr. Sawyer Right. In fact most of them, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on these but there aren't a lot of changes. I would like to note that the Board of Tax Review, there is a significant change and that is unlike in the past Council members will not be members of the Board of Review. It says, No member of the Board of Review shall hold any other public office or public employment in any local unit of government supported by Lansing Property Tax, in whole or in part. You should note that this would also include school board, county government, co-m--ni-ni,tycoll,tig:i aiaJ all the other u-ni-Is that ass.-?ssed property taxes support or are collectal)".e within the City of Lansing. Mr. Adado - They cannot serve? Mr. Sawyer - That's right they are not eligible to serve. Mr. Adado - That's alright, you couldn't get two members of the Council to serve I have no objections to that,' Mr. Sawyer - And the Mayor appoints those members subject to confirmation by Council and they still have staggered terms for those. Other than that the Board of Review remains somewhat as it was. Its rules, like all other Boards, except Police and Fire are subject to approval by the City Attorney's office and ultimate review by City Council. Provide that tax will be a lien on property procedures for collection of taxes are set forth here. There is a requirement that is to be provided by ordinance for the payment of taxes, charges and fees set forth here, and like it or not we have ordinances covering that already. Mayor Graves - Excuse me. Item . 4 under the Board of Review. If a man is involved in State government he is still eligible isn't he. Mr. Sawyer - Right. The State does not have the right to collect property taxes in the city. Mr. Donnellan - Well .1 don't think that's the test that they collect, but it is a local unit of government Mr. Sawyer That's true too. Mr. Sawyer Again, there is the power for the City to provide by ordinance for delinquent taxes. Bowering power I ha ,e already pointed -Dut to the extent the TISH effect on the City's borrowing power or limit. Mr. Baker - That would exclude employees of County then from serving on the Board of Review. Mr. Adado - That's correct. County, school board, commu.,iity college board, Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 84 (Mr. Adado continues ) anything that has to do with the collection of local taxes, they are not eligible. Mr. Sawyer - Power to Assess, you should note, I am skipping into that cause that is really the thing of next importance . . . . Mr. Zimmerman - Could I just point out one brief thing here? Under 7-301, under the execution of obligations, there is something a little bit different there. No, I'm sorry, that's not different I missed my note. Go ahead. Mr. Sawyer - Skipping to Power to Assess. Council specifically shall have the power to make public improvements in the City and as to public improvements which are such a nature, shall provide for a special assessment. And that the Council is to provide a procedure by ordinance to complete . . .f or special assessment, governing the initiation of project, preparation, plans, etc. Mr. Donnellan - I think it is all pretty much the same. Mr. Sawyer - Basically the same, yes. Mr. Baker - How many votes does it take to authorize bonds? Discussion on this point by several all at once. Someone thought it was six votes. Mr. Sawyer - Five. Mr. Baker - Why did you think it was six? Discussion on thinking this was the same as appropriation. Mr. Sawyer - On the Postponement of Payments., again Council may provide that persons, who in the opinion of the Assessor and Council, and that's the restriction on it, you have to have the concurrence of opinion, by reason of poverty or are unable to contribute toward the cost of making of a public improvement may exercute an instrument creating a lien and defer payment . at least while they own the property. Under Regulatory Powers and Contracts, you should note that, property exempt from real estate tax is not exempt from special ass-'ssments. With the exception of State properties, which under law are not subject. Under Regulatory Powers and Contracts, the Charter really imposes many fewer limitations on the contract power of the City. Let me note before I g o down., that it does provide things that have been dropped. Specifically, up to this point, any contract that took more than five years to perform required a consent of the voting electorate. That requirement has been dropped at this point Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 85 Mr. Adado No longer a limit of five years on it? Mr. Sawyer - For the performance of the contract. So where other people can approve contracts (voice faded) It provides first of all, that you should note under regulatory powers that the City is required to provide by ordinance a review of decisions of City Agencies under that section. And that has to do with the City exercising its police powers to prohibit or prohibiting except as authorized by permit, as to franchise, any trade, occupation, amunement, business or other activity with the City. What that means is, for instance, our ponography shop licensing, or peddler permits or any other regulatory license we issue, the concept of this Charter is that it goes on under issuance of licases. first of all, that the City by ordinance will attempt to centralize license issuance and function in one agency, but that also by that ordinance they will provide for a review of the decisions of that agency too. The Council will be required to move fairly quickly to accomplish that. We have a number of licensing ordinances that are going to have to be reviewed. at least consolidated and chanced somewhat as to their administration. Mr. Donnellan - One of the things that are coming up more and more is that the citizens who are turned down are going to the court on the theory that there was no standard applied for turning them down so this is an area you will have to be getting into anyway. to pick out what exactly you are doing and trying to accomplish. Mr. Baker - That won't be a difficulty because in fact we have rewritten several of our ordinances in the last couple of years to provide for specific standards, plus a hearing before the Council and a right of review by that person. Mayor - -- Liquor license is one of them, one of the cases. They say we need a criteria on this. Mr. Baker - Cab drivers. They were being turned down for various reasons. Mr. Sawyer - A good number of our more recent regulatory ordinance s and even some of our older ones that have been looked at, a �Justments have been made to take care of due process, some of the problems in terms of definitive standards., appeal from an administrative decision. However, there are still many ordinances that are on the books that have not been reviewed for a long time and do have some deficiencies. Mr. Baker - Some like the garbage haulers, and stuff like that. We get all kinds of complaints in them but they aren't kept so they just routinely get their license main. Nancy Baker - We had a staff person and they came up with some 68 to 70 licenses and permits. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 86 Mr. Sawyer - I allude to the thing that the licensing be put in one place. 8-102 states that Council shall provide by ordinance, a procedure for the issuance of licenses and permits. The ordinance shall, to the greatest extent possible, place the responsibility for the issuance of licenses and permits under one official in order that the persons requesting specific licenses and permits will not have to contact more than one city office. To some extent that function has been centralized in the City Clerk's office, up to now, but that will require changes. Franchises, many of the limitations on franchises has been removed in terms of when to quiry public franchises. Renewals and extensions have to be by ordinance. Mr. Adado - Does this leave franchise open-ended? Mr. Sawyer - No. Mr. Adado - Is there anyplace in here that specifies a limited period or is that to be determined by Council ordinance or action, Mr. Donnellan - By statute, basically and by Constitution, you can't have a franchise longer than 30 years. Mr. Adado 30 years? O. K. Mr. lawyer Earlier they were much more limited . . . 15 years Discussion by several at one time on the limit of franchise. Mr. Sawyer - In any event we are required by State law, two-thirds vote of the electorate approving, otherwise it requires -nearly a two-thirds vote of the Council to approve a franchise or removal of it. There are standard provisions mandated for. One of them is public utility franchise. Shall include provisions for fixing and periodically adjusting rates and charges, at the direction of the City. In regard -t-o our cable T. V. ordinance, there are still Fome problems in some aspects of that in terms F. C. C. pre-empt as to home box office type entertainment. There are still some cases progressing up through court as to what kind of jurisdiction they really have to do that and our office is calling on them for advice and consultation. Mr. Baker - The oasic chance is that ti-e Feds are pulling out of it completely. Even after State and Local. Mr. Sawyer - The trend of court decisions seem to be against them in that regard. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 87 Discussion on Feds not getting out yet but they want out. Let the market dictate. Mr. Donnellan - Let me just point out 8-304. 3. It is like the Board of Water and Light section concerning the resolution of dispute as regard to rate, and at this point it only refers to sewers, as I understand it. The intent is to have the Council, for sewage services, establish a procedure the same way the Board of Water and Light establishes it. Mr. Baker - What is Public Act 94, of 1933 and in Section 5-205. 1? Page 18 in 8-303. 1. What does that say? Mr. Donnellan - The revenue Bond Act . ,or if you want to answer it Steve? Mr. Sawyer - This relates to the ongoing yearly dispute between the Board In of Water and Light as to the requirement, or Council's power to set, or at least subject to some degree of control Board of Water and Light rates, and the Revenue Bond Act provides for that and also provides for the contracting way of that. Security for the revenue bonds that are issued, it is several opinions of attorneys, an ongoing dispute of this, Lansing in the courts in the revenue bonding, has elected to approve issues that contain contractural requirements that go along with them, that the Board of Water and Light set its rates and that power be . . . Council be mandated to raise its rates if rates should be insufficient for the payment of debts service. This basically confirms the legality of this. There was no way they could change it to their own acts because it is constitutionally protected. Mr. Donnellan - Conceivably there is an argument that the if the Board of Water and Light charges in excess of those needed to protect its bond holders, conceivably the Council, pursuant to the Bond Act, has the overall authority to set lower rates. This Charter doesn't take any position one way or the other. If it turns out that is the correct interpretation of the Revenue Bond Act, that it can only be the Council, they must have the final determination, then so be it. Mr. Baker - So that would say, the Board of Water and Light just raised their water rates. 1',re you saying that, it is pursuant to protecting their bonds, provide services . . . do da, do da. Are you saying that City Council could say no? Mr. Donnellan - That is an interpretation that has been indicated. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 88 Mr. Walsh Lets start the other way around. The Revenue Bond Act says if the Board's rates were left at a level that did not produce enough revenue to pay the bonds. Council would have an affirmative duty to act to raise them. O. K. , so, you can at least go up. What Tom (Donnellan) says is the Bond Act doesn't say so but the Courts might say so. Mr. Donnellan - Right, we have not answered that question. The only thing we have indicated is that we have given a direction to the Board of Water and Light to set the rates. Under the Revenue Bond Act that is subject to the commitment made by the City Council when it issues the bonds, that they will protect the bonds. Now whether or not it also has the power to lower the rates on the theory that the Board of Water and Light is wrong as to what is needed to protect the bond holders, that is a question that wasn't decided by the Charter Commission. It says that it is governed by the Revenue Bond Act. Mr. Adado - What this does is say, O. K. , the Board of Water and Light can reduce their rates and if we find that they are not enough to cover their bonds then we have to raise their rates. But there is nothing in this Charter that says if the Board Of Water and Light justifies the rates thatthey are having as sufficient to meet their obligations unless we can prove, and that is questionable unless we can prove it is excessive. Then we have got to go through the courts, or something. Right? Mr. Donnellan - It will go to the courts, most certainly. But, you would have to take the initiative. Mayor Graves - Bond holders would jump all over your back. Mr. Baker - Suppose we passed a resolution up here that says it shall be 25� per hundred cubic feet of water. Suppose we should pass a resolution saying , "No, it shall b e 2 3�? " Pas s ed it. What happens Mr. Donnellan - Well, there would be a court action on it. Mr. Baker - Could they legally just ignore it? Since we are responsible. Mr. Donnellan - 'I don't think they would ignore it and I don't think they can leggy.Oly. ignore it. But it would almost certainly go to court on the theory that the bond holders are not being protected. Mr. Sawyer - It should be noted in connection with this that unlike just standing and statutory . . . bonding issues have specific issues . . provisions that have been made actual covenants runincr to the bene'H ol the bond holders and their trustee, which go a little further than the statute requires and state that the Board of Water and Light will have the independent power to set its rates, raise them etc. , subject only to the power to act, in the event and only in the event, that the bonds are not sufficient. So not only would you ':iave a suit under the Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 89 Revenue Act you would probably have a suite under constitutional provisions protecting the power of contracts. In the case of Lansing would complicate the chances of success considerably. In my opinion. Mr. Adado - What did Jonsie say, Dick? Mr. Baker - What the attorney says, we have waived our right to lower, under that contract. Mr. Adado - Alright, is there anything else? Tom, do you feel that there is anything else that we should go over in these last two pages? Mr. Walsh - Well, you need an ordinance following 8-403, middle of the page. Purchase and sale of real property. We set out some factors that ought to be in your ordinance and that should happen fairly soon. Mr. Adado - I like that section anyway. Mr. Baker - What's that? Mr. Adado - The section about selling property, either six votes of Council or, the electorate . . . if the electorate says to sell it then we don't have to have six votes concurring with what they tell us. Under the present Charter it is either/or. Discussion on how this was handled in the past to sell the property of the City. Mr. Walsh - Well, we think we have eased up the sale of real estate consider- ably and Mr. Adado - Sure you have. Real estate under 50 thousand dollars we can sell. Is there anything else that should be brought up. C� Mr. Zimme rman - There is one thing that I think Steve (Sawyer) would want to bring up and I think that is the area of . . . if there is something that we have omitted. That is 9-205, Steve, I think it is a critical section. Mr. Sawyer - Right. It provides that the Council, by rule or resolution , any cases not covered by this transition of the Old Charter to the New Charter and it is an important catch-all for oversight, and really details that it isn't appropriate to deal with in a document such as this too. Such as details that you wouldn't want to clutter up the Charter with. I would like to point out a couple of things that are of concern to me too. First of all, as far as going back and collecting municiple utility charges 8-304, sub . 3, the City shall establish procedure for resolution of dispute between the Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 90 City and any of its customers concerning public utility service, other than electric. In terms of our cable television company, we do have a procedure cedure established in their franchise, which again has contractual back-up and it would be advisable to Council as a legal matter to adhere to that, at least in terms of the existence of the present franchise anduntil they renew it. Skipping over to 8-402, it is required that the City establish procedures by ordinance to protect the interest of the City in disposing of personal property, ordinance shall require competitive bidding for all sales and transfers but may provide for exceptional cases. And we some of that already, but that merits review. Skipping to the next page, 9-203 Pensions, The City has a rather unique problem with its Police and Fire Department with regard to the pensions of the Police Chief and Fire Chief. Because of that, eve:: - this does proport to continue the Charter established pension for Police and Fire, which has been abolished, with the old Charter going out, I would strongly recommend to the Council that they enact by ordinance, a substitute, basically incorporating terms set up in the Charter but with the addition of several changes that have been made by collective bargaining contracts to the pension benefits to all of the rank and file and supervisory, other than the Police chiefs. Those coll- ective bargaining contrac pension benefit increases do not apply to the chiefs since they are not in the bargaining unit. t) Mr. Adado - We are going to depend upon you Steve, to do anything that is necessary. Mr. Sawyer - We are already moving to take care of that problem. I just thought I would point it out as kind of a problem. Mr. A dado - O. K. It was noted that Miss Fulton, City Clerk,had a couple of questions. Miss Fulton - The other time in the other Charter, I checked back and looked it up and we bought the type, it had been printed inthe Journal and we bought the type from them in order to print the Charters, I take it for granted t'lat Mr. Holmos,that he would have the type. Also, we got to think of the indexing of it and we hired a young man at that time. I didn't know whether 1 would be doing that or the Mayor would be doing that. Mr. Zimmerman - As far as the printing of the Charter? I think you are as the keeper of all of the records. Mr. Hull - Go, Theo, go. Mr.' Zimmerman - And Dick (Holmes) does still have the printing from all his n1,qt(-.c4_ Charter Conference August 24, 1978 Page 91 Miss Fulton continues We will also have to decide how much we are going to charge for those Charters. Discussion on how many of the newly printed charters remain.. It was thought that there were not very many. Mr. Donnellan - Let me point out, if you are going to be putting together a new Code next year, a new codification within the next year or so that may affect the number of new charters that you print this time because you could . . . Miss Fulton - It doesn't matter to me, I was just asking. Mr. Baker - I suspect that there might be some new Charter amendments we would want to put on in the next six months as we start to work with this and find out how it works and I wouldn't go into too wholesale a printing for the first time on this Charter until we find out if it will be amended heavily, lightly or not at all. Mr. Adado - We could do that in the next primary election. Mr. Donnellan - Actually you should do this in the next November election. Mr. Baker - We may not have enough experience by then to know what we want . . . . Several talked all at once. Mr. Baker - I have one last question and I didn't hear answered here. On contracts that the City signs. Normally those now come to City Council for approval. Will they continue to do so? Mr. Donnellan - The Council can adopt an ordinance, in fact it is directed to adopt an ordinance for most types of contracts under 8-201, 2 and 3. And it would be, and I think the question came up earlier in the meeting, that in the absence of any such ordinance, if there is a clear appropriation and authorization for the expenditure of money through the adoption of the budget or otherwise, that would be a proper con! act that could be entered into and signed even though it didn't come before the Council. The question is if it is authorized by Council through the adoption of the budget or some other means. Mr. Adado - If it-was set up as a budget item for a contract further down. Then it wouldn't have to come to the City Council. We contract every year for sidewalks, replacement of sidewalks. O. K. ? That would not have to come to the City Council if the appropriation is made at budget time. That is a normal . . if Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 92 Mayor Graves If the bid is legitimate and meets the appropriation that is made. Mr. Adado - It doesn't have to come to us. We don't have to authorize for the Mayor and Clerk to sign the contract. Mr. Baker - It would no longer come to us? Mr. Adado - It doesn't come to us now. Mr. Sawyer - You are mandated, as a matter of fact, to provide procedures to define what standards, as a matter of policy, you will require to be applicable to every contract that the Mayor may sign. Or anyone else. Mayor - You would have to have legitimate explanation if it was the second low bidder. Why would you go with the second low bidder if it was going to exceed the appropriation. You would have to have to you would have to go back to Council and say, "Hold it, it has exceeded, we have a problem here, what are you going to do about it? " Zn Mr. Baker - That is just an executive decision, period? Mr. Adado - He would have to send us specific reasons for accepting the second low bid. I Mayor - There is a model ordinance that is being proposed, I don't know if it is the one we would use or not, in purchasing 'and contracts and what not. Do you have any copies of the model contract? Mr. Sawyer - Right. Discussion by several all at once . Mr. Baker - What about a contract that comes from another unit of government, that says it must be signed by the City. Does that require City Council action in order to sign that? Mr. Adado - If it is costing funds and the funds aren't in the budget, then it would have 'to come to us. Mr. Baker - Regardless. Let's say the funds are appropriated. Mr. Adado - Then it doesn't have to come to us. Mr. Donnellan - There are a lot of statutes that say, like the B. B. A. and the E. D. C. statutes, say that the governing body of the municipality must authorize this that or the other thing. If the statute says that then the statute controlls. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 93 Mr. Adado This Charter, when Theo (Miss Fulton) files it takes effect on the 8th day of September. Does that mean on the Ilth. Discussion on the filing by several all a t one time. Mr. Sawyer - The Charter takes effect at the time that it is filed with both the County Clerk and the Secretary of State, whenever that may be. Mr. Adado - The Monday, following that Thursday, the Clerk sits up there until such time as we elect the President. Mr. Mayor That's right. Mr. Adado Is it possible for us to continue under the system we have for a transition period of a week, or two, or whatever? Mr. Donnellan - I am sure you could. You could pass a resolution saying until you organized and the Council, committee of the whole, will be same as before so you would have some business to conduct other than the electing of the Council President. Mr. Adado - I am doing to ask anyone in the audience if they have any questions or statements. Walter Jones - Is there anything in the Charter that stops the Board of Water and Light from raising revenues for the City Treasurer? Mr. Sawyer - Under State statute, the Board of Water and Light is a publicly owned utility, is authorized to donate money to the City. Which is revenue surplus funds. But there is no way for us to require them to do it. They may make contributions to the City out of surplus funds only. There is nothing in the Charter that I have read so far that would require the Board of Water and Light to do so and no way for the City to require them to do so. Mr. Jones - The Council has the power to tax and that would be a tarrif and a tax under the normal procedure of taxation and they have that power and they can set their rates and they can set their rates to raise that revenue. Mr. Donnellan - There is no way to have a property tax on property owned by the Board of Water and Light because it is owned by the City and VD uld be exempt under State law. I am not sure what other kind of tax you might be thinking of. An.excise tax, I don't think the City has the power. Conference on Charter August 24, 1978 Page 94 Mr. Adado - Anyone else have a question? Mr. Walsh - Just one final thing. Mr. Donnellan is here with us tonight as a volunteer at your invitation. Since we are out of office, we couldn't pay him. He said , "Yes, he would be happy to come. " If Council or the Mayor or the City Attorney wants any help from him from here on, you could, I am sure, employ his services. We think very highly of him and Steve is going to be rather a busy boy for awhile. I thought you dad an excellent job tonight and obviously you have been reading over our product for quite some time. There are a number, and I'm not quite sure we caught all of them, ordinance s that are going to be needed pretty quick. I just make the comment. Beyond that, we have enjoyed meeting with you , we can't answer all the problems, it is now your baby, but if we can help at anytime I am sure we would all be happy to. Mr. Adado - On behalf of the City Council, those members who couldn't make it tonight because of vacation schedules, namely Brenke, Belen and McKane, we want to thank you and your attorney and your secretary for coming down and by all means we want to thank all of the people who came down, those who have stuck with us. The Charter has been adopted by the voters and we will work with it and if we have any questions we call on you. We want to thank Mr. Donnellan for volunteering to work with us if and when we have a question. If there are no more questions we will adjourn. Meeting adjourned at 11:55 p. m. Respectfully submitted, Dorothy Treska, Secretary to Charter Commission and Deputy City Clerk.